I bet it will be really hard to get the ones we want from RIver's because they are so awesome in what they are breeding. I would be up for some trading within our group here once I dig and know what I have. I have really been enjoying the ones I do have...River's Coal Mine is wonderful. I also have a lot of seedlings from River's Cherry Bomb, and some of the other small ones that have not bloomed this year, I will try to hold them over and plant them again next year in a sunnier part of my garden.