General Dahlia Chat 2024

As my seedlings bloom I have been culling the ones I don’t plan to keep ( mostly singles) and planting them in a row along the edge of our property since my son loves them so much . Roughly 100 feet from the dahlias I plan to save seed from. Will I need to cut these back once I start seed saving or is that far enough away it won’t have an impact on my seed saving?

Bees think 100 feet is just a few inches. The pollen would pollute your seed parents. Remember the open center flowers have many times as much pollen also. Fully double dahlias have small pollen centers as that helps with the open center issue but means there is much less pollen for the bees to find. And bees are lazy and if they have to crawl around inside the flower to get pollen, they will just find a better flower.

MissyWeitzel yup this is what I plan to do. Since we have bees I knew their flight pattern radius can go up to 2 miles away. Just wasn’t sure how they work with dahlias as I prefer not to pollute the pollen with singles if I can help it. Once it’s time to cut them back ill hand him the scissors and he will be more than happy to have free reign on cutting something!

We do not grow open center types of dahlia, period. Think about all the time it will take to remove those hundreds of flowers. I am a hypocrite in one way, as we do not remove the "losers" in the first year seedlings and I am sure their pollen pollutes lots of our seed pods. However, those "losers" are only one generation away from a good fully double flower and their pollen is much, much less "poisonous" as compared to open center types that have only "crappy" genes that ruin anything they pollinate.

Dahlia Talk article, unedited by the person they assign to clean up my typos.
Dahlia Talk 07/23/24
Sugar Coated Dahlias
Twenty eight very enthusiastic participants engaged in the monthly Dahlia Talk Zoom meeting. It was a lively meeting full of interesting content. I have been growing dahlias for over 30 years now and feel that if there is something to learn about dahlias I have already heard of it. There are not many surprises for me and most things people suggest are something I have already heard of or even worse, I know it does not work or there is a better way. But tonight I was ambushed by an idea so simple, so inexpensive and so easy to do and it is eminently effective. Yes, as the title above implies we need to sugar coat our dahlias. I will explain in the second portion of this short article as I tend to write the meeting summary in chronological order. Yes, we need to sugar coat our dahlias.

It was publicized before the meeting that pot tubers would be the major discussion subject and two very experienced growers were especially invited to the Zoom meeting to share their decades of experience concerning pot tubers. Mark Oldenkamp grows thousands of cuttings each year and uses pot tubers to do this. Dick Parshall has been using pot tubers for decades to increase the stock of his breeding selections and for several other reasons that he explained to us.

We have discussed pot tubers in several prior meetings. I will try not to repeat what was covered previously.

Mark Oldenkamp described his pot tuber procedures. He grows pot tubers primarily to produce cuttings that he donates to our club and other clubs for fund raisers. He grows thousands of cuttings and this requires lots of pot tubers and multiple pot tubers of the varieties. Mark uses 3.5 inch pots placed into a 10” x 20” flat(18 per flat?) . He uses Wilco potting soil in the pots. He grows his pot tubers outside on a table and has set up an automatic watering system that waters them as many as three times per day. He uses no fertilizer in the pots and the plants typically do not bloom. Again, the reason he grows them is to provide cutting material. We discussed two issues concerning the production of the cuttings. The first issue was “waking up” the pot tuber to produce cutting material. Mark cuts back the dead stem down to the tuber material and slightly exposes the location of the “eyes” to the air and light. He waters his pots and places them under lights in a 70 degree location and they begin sending up sprouts in about a week. Mark almost always harvest the sprouts by removing them very close to the tubers and does not generally do “node”“ cuttings from higher up on the sprout. He uses the smaller Oasis cubes for the cuttings having found out the larger ones are less effective and more expensive.

Dick Parshall grows about 200 pot tubers each year and he does so to increase his stock of seedlings and to produce many, many cuttings that he donates to the Washington clubs for fundraisers. He generally does not plant his rooted cuttings into his own garden unless he is short on a variety. He prefers to plant tubers in his garden. Dick grows his pot tubers in 3.5 inch pots in the same 10” x 20” flats as Mark above. However, Dick grows his pot tubers on the ground(slightly buried in the ground) and uses t-tape to water them. Dick goes through a procedure to “wake up” his dormant pot tubers and places them in a plastic bag with some moist potting soil and places the bag on top of his refrigerator or freezer where it is about 72 degrees. He says they show sprouts at about one week. He commented that he wants to see hair roots on the tuber material on both his pot roots and tubers that he wakes up in the same manner. He says hair roots indicate that the plant will grow well.
I have left out lots of detail from the presentations of both of these growers and you should have “been there”.
One short item: People in many parts of the USA have difficulty buying small pots that are not flimsy. They must pay exorbitant shipping costs when buying in bulk. I mentioned that here in Oregon, we have horticultral stores where you just go there and buy all your supplies. For example, OBC in Canby, Oregon sells anything you need for a commercial grower from green houses to plant tags, potting soil or just about anything. Small pots are sold by the thousands in bales. You can specify the heavy duty pots for re-use. They can order special pots from the manufacturer. Now when I mentioned all of this, most of the people in the Dahlia Talk do not live in Oregon and I detected a slight amount of jealousy here. I offered this suggestion, if you need a heavy duty 4 inch pot and all you have are flimsy pots, nest two of them together and that will be almost as good as a heavy duty pot. Or, move to Oregon.

Sugar Coated dahlias was the last thing I expected to hear. Our subject discussion left pot tubers and we generally talked about insects and pests like rabbits and voles. Rabbits had no definitive answer. We went on to wire worms that are also known as Click beetles. They are very infectious and if you have them you cannot get rid of them. We were all hoping for new “miracle cure” for them but there was sadness in the room as a person who conferred with Washington State University announced they have stated “there is no cure” for wire worms. I asked about the people who suffer from Japaneses beetles and whether pheromone traps were effective. I was told by the victims of the beetles that if someone puts up one of those traps within a half mile of their property, the traps attract beetles from miles away and they are deluged with beetles. Oops, I had foot in mouth disease concerning beetles.

Finally, we get to sugar coating dahlias. Two people were enthusiastic about testing the sugar(brix) levels of the juices in their dahlia leaves. There is a belief that the higher the sugar level, the less insect damage you have. The meter for testing the sugar levels costs less that $20- on Amazon.

There is a pod cast they refer to and I have not had time to watch it but am posting the link. https://notillflowers.libsyn.com/the-magical-brix-number-that-stops-pests-an-exciting-conversation-with-dr-tom-dykstra

In order to increase the brix level in the plants one person is using a spray she bought from Amazon that has has some sort of brown sugar in it . She has used it and it has increased the brix levels. All of this sugar stuff is new to me and we will be following the progress of those who are using this method to control insect damage.

Teddahlia I was excited when I first heard about it too. I discovered it via that Jennie Love podcast episode and last season even sprayed my plants with hi-brix molasses a few times. I bought a refractometer too. I don't think I kept up with it enough to notice a result and kind of forgot about trying it this year. Maybe this is a good reminder to start again!

Oh! Also the hi-brix molasses should be pretty easy to find in a grow shop / hydroponics store. Cannabis growers employ this tactic too. I found lots of posts in cannabis growing forums when I first started researching it. Flower people are just now catching on.

I’ve been using regular blackstrap molasses this yr. Probably 4 times this yr so far ( the goal was weekly but that kind of slipped by on me) noticed my zinnias are like dark glossy green with thicker stronger stems. Time will tell on the dahlias. So far no bug pressure but as weird as it may sound the yr I QUIT spraying for pests an switched over to letting nature or the beneficial insects/nematodes control them was the yr the pest pressure went WAY down. Each yr it gets less and less. I also do no till so I I can tell the more yrs I do that the better my plants and ecosystem in the garden becomes.

BarryO
The trick to emptying the vases is to use bread trays and two garbage cans. One for water and one for foam. Place a bread tray over over a garbage can for water, turn the vase upside down... tap... tap... the water drains into the can and the foam stays on the bread tray. It helps to get some if the water out of the foam too. Transfer the foam from the tray to the foam can.

AKWindWatcher I had already forgot about using oats for slug control. Thanks for that reminder!
Would a floating row cover help the Dahlias develop faster?

I judged at the trial garden today and had 4 "trainees" accompany me. Very hot weather. First day Swan Island was open to the public. Talked to a gardener from Memphis TN and gave him my two bits on how to grow them there in the oven like conditions. Our record high low is 72 F. They had a week last year where the temp never went below 79F. I took no pictures of the entries, sorry but only about 40% were blooming. I get to talk to lots of people and a lady had her mother with her who has dementia(84 years old) . I was amazed how happy her mother was to be visiting the gardens.

Teddahlia wow, those reds photograph perfectly; that's how you know you have a good camera! Impressive photos by Margaret.

MissyWeitzel

Is your friend growing Hy Scent in the U.S.? I’m on the hunt for it, and pleased to hear of someone possibly in the U.S. growing it!

I have a first year collarette seedling that’s only given me its first bloom so far, that gave off a scent exactly like a good, sweet smelling rose! I noticed it when I went to collect pollen, and was stunned. My wife verified…she said if her eyes were closed she would think it was a rose, and a really nice smelling one at that. The other seedling to bloom so far from that same seed parent had a faint scent, somewhat pleasant, but not near as amazing or noteworthy as that other seedling. The seed parent itself sometimes gives off a scent reminiscent of faded roses, but fleeting & faint. If my rose smelling seedling continues to give off good rose scent in future blooms, I would love to explore crossing Hy Scent with my rose-smelling seedling & see if we can get some more fragrant dahlias.

If your friend is interested in a possible trade/sale for Hy Scent in the future, I would love to be connected! If not, I would still love hearing a report on what it smells like to you when you get to experience it in person yourself!

Unfortunately the form on my rose smelling seedling isn’t anything great & it likely would have been culled if future blooms didn’t improve, had I not noticed the smell! It is a cute little thing & the red is very velvety dark looking in person (photographed a bit lighter.)

Laia PM me your name and email address and I'll send it to my friend. Her dahlias were planted late this season so I doubt it has bloomed yet for her to verify it, but she's usually up for a good trade!

Laia Congratulations on the find! Though probably not a show bloom, she is very attractive and would make an impressive garden/cut variety. I would cross her with the one sibling (that also has some scent ) and maybe also back-cross her to the parents. Make sure to make cuttings so you can get pot tubers to ensure storage. It would be a shame to lose this one.

Krista I can't wait to see your creations!

MissyWeitzel I figured out how to send a PM on here & just sent one to you! Thanks so much, Missy!