Hybridizing Dahlias

Bessie · 2023-09-14T03:43:02+00:00

Krista to discover if seeds are growing in the seed pod, after there are no remaining anthers on the pod, gently squeeze the pods between your thumb and fing...

Bessie

Teddahlia your comment about pollen center and abrupt petal dehiscence is thought provoking. I've been noticing one of my seedlings (24522) has a very small pollen center (or none) and almost no pollen. The petals seem to wilt as they mature as opposed to dropping off.
Sometimes on a bloom of other varieties I've pulled out a disk floret(stigma and style with pollen ready to mature) and notice that the petals wilt. Makes me think there's a connection between the pollen center and the disk petals. Something for me to research...

Teddahlia

"disk petals." are perhaps disc florets and are on anemone dahlias. Ray florets are the petals on the double dahlias we breed. I have always been fascinated that the disc petals can be be very large as they are wrapped around the reproductive parts of the flower. One year an "A" sized seedling flower that was a bit open center had disc florets and ray florets. I celebrated but the next year they were gone.

Teddahlia

There has been stuff posted on the color of the reverse of the floret on Facebook. The orchid flowers show the "reverse" of the petal as what you see and the face of the floret is rolled up and hardly visible. So it is rather important that the reverse of the floret have some "nice" color. Here is a black and white picture of a first year seedling that has the "fully double orchid" form. I wish I could say the color on the "reverse" of the florets was attractive on this seedling. It looks better in black and white. I will post the color picture tomorrow after you fall in love with nice form shown in the B&W version.

Juliarugula

Teddahlia that one looks so cool. Have you guys been working with the “fully double orchid” form specifically, or was this one a surprise seedling? I remember you talking about how cool you thought River’s intros were a few years back when they started introducing this form.

This is a particularly compelling black and white photo!

Teddahlia

No breeding going on here. My theory is that the gene to reverse the roll of the petal can just appear at random. That would mean it is a dominant gene probably. Here is the color picture.

Juliarugula

Teddahlia I love it in color too!

calico20hill

Teddahlia I've got one doing the same thing. I think it is a seedling of Hollyhill Black Beauty as the colors are much the same but the petals are doing this inward roll thing. Is it Double Orchette Season just starting?

Teddahlia

Sometimes an open center flower gets
your attention. Should we keep it?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hollyhilldahlias/54777500109/in/dateposted-public/
The Flickr enlarged picture is amazing. Link will take you there, click on it to enlarge.

SteveM

Teddahlia Should we keep it?

Cross it with your anemone an see what kind of creature you can create.

Bessie

Teddahlia Yes, keep it! Maybe cross it with the too many petals waterlily.
SteveM I pollinated Totally Tangerine( sent to me by mistake) with the mostly open centered Hollyhill Creamy(WL) that make tons of pollen. Today I picked a Totally Tangerine seedpod that had 5 seeds that look like they have the potential to germinate.

Juliarugula

Teddahlia is the photo before it in the stream the same waterlily before the center blew? Because the one before it (two blooms) is soooo bright! Wow! 🔥

Teddahlia

I believe this is the first bloom on this 5 foot tall seedling. I showed some people the picture on my cell phone at the club meeting yesterday. It is a really good "show and tell" picture to get conversation going. People love dahlias because of the color and not the form. If dahlias had perfect form and were just shades of gray, they would not appeal nearly everybody(there are some people who worship good form and would be the exception).

Teddahlia

Genes for strange things are present in small numbers and pop up occasionally.

Teddahlia

One old time dahlia person said saving sports was the equivalent of being a dahlia breeder. He was full of it. Breeders do lots of planning and selection over several generations. A sport appears without your intervention like a miracle from heaven. "Oh, look at my dahlia plant: it has changed color. I will dig it and name it." Well ,when it happens in our garden, it is both a miracle and the result of many years of breeding. RPT is a sport of HH Pink Tigress, a 5th generation seedling. RPT is mostly red with some yellow near the center and could be called a flame. It sported to a nice variegated flower. We will see if we can save the plant.

SteveM

Teddahlia Have you seen that combination of base color and variegation color(s) before?

Justafewdahlias

Teddahlia I love variegated dahlias! I have noticed from people who don’t grow or know dahlias the variegated ones and funky colored ones really catch their attention and spark their interest

Teddahlia

It is similar to Wicked Witch. The base color pigment seems to be yellow. The flower is trying to cover the yellow with solid red but the transposon is interrupting the solid color with some small splotches of darker(probably just more ) pigment. We have saved some first year very dark waterlily flowers. During the winter when I am punching keys on this computer I bet I will share some pictures.

Teddahlia

Should I post to Facebook?
Fully double dahlias have been bred for 100 years or more to not make seeds. The pollen center that shows is a major fault in the shows so they have bred it to be smaller and smaller. Despite all the attempts to eliminate seed making, some varieties are still out there that make seeds. And , yes some of them make nice seedlings. That is why successful breeders keep track of good seed making parents. We also breed our own seed parent varieties that are private flowers and never sold. Again: Fully double dahlias have been bred for over 100 years to not make seeds.

Posted and got Ho Hum response so far.

calico20hill

This year River's Dahlias gave out a small packet of seeds. Out of the 10 seeds (I think that is what it was) I got this one today. It is a 3" flower and so pretty! Petals are orange on the front and gold on the back.

calico20hill

calico20hill Another seedling was the same beautiful orange but more a 4" stellar

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