Dahlias varieties that make viable seeds

Bessie

Continuing today to plant tubers and mature cuttings in the ground. As usual, I'm overthinking the process. I keep hearing Ted's wife Margaret in my ear, "why did you plant two red varieties together"?"😂
My question is... does Kelgai Anne produce viable seed, or is it just a pollen parent? This is my first year growing it.
Last year I had viable seed from Alloway Candy( about 55 seedlings), two viable seeds from Hollyhill Donnatella, one seed from Ferncliff Cameo(seedling died), and about 20 seedlings from an unreleased cream colored waterlily type flower that was sent to me by mistake. About 8-10 times that many seed of other varieties didn't sprout.
Thanks for your help!

MissyWeitzel

Bessie yes, I collected seeds from multiple Kelgai Ann plants and several germinated.

Krista

Mr Boley posted this in a Facebook group last month that confirms Kelgai Ann has been used as a seed parent for them too:

Bessie

Krista thank you! I've referenced their website info in the past. I think it may need updating.

Krista

Is the possibility and/or quality of seed impacted by when it’s collected: early, mid or late season? Or by the quality of the specific bloom it’s collected from; seed and pollen? Or, is all seed collecting done towards the end of the season?

Bessie

Krista I don't know the definitive answer to most of those questions, however the healthier the bloom and plant, the better. Some of my seed suffered from fungus when I attempted germination. There is such a thing a "systemic powdery mildew".

I've been tempted to germinate some of the seeds I've collected thus far, but vacations and seed starting don't mix well. 😉

Bessie

Krista I just sprouted seed I collected in June from a 2024 seedling(24202) that started blooming the second half of May. I collected 12 seeds from one seed pod that was open pollinated. Looks like there will be about 70% germination. I think I planted the seed around July 2nd in a 2 ounce plastic that had a bit of moistened paper towel. Today, July 8th, I planted in soil 6 sprouts that were growing strongly, with another two or three seeds that looked like they were about to sprout. I germinated the seeds at room temperature, which varied from 70 degrees to 90 degrees. It was a nice surprise to find them after coming home from a 5 day vacation. So, fresh seed does germinate, and quickly!

Krista

Bessie Oh this is great information! I wouldn’t have thought of this, but it makes sense that later in the season there’d be a higher chance of finding powdery mildew present. Thank you!

Krista

And I hope you’re having wonderful vacations this summer!

Teddahlia

We tried hand pollinating in August but the seeds would not set. We have a been harvesting seeds in September and all of October and into November for several years now. When breeding our fully double types, the germination rates are low and we figure on a 20% germination rate. To grow 1,000 seedlings, one needs 5,000 seeds. We collect far more than 5,000 each year because one likes to be selective and plant the best seeds and the others are back up seeds if they do not grow. Hand crossed seeds are another subject and Margaret knows how to coax seeds from her crosses. Hand pollinating is just one way of controlling pollen and selecting what crosses with what is the essence of dahlia breeding. And using other peoples' named varieties is only a starting point as you need to create your own lines of dahlias. Powdery mildew is not a big issue here.

Krista

Teddahlia 5,000 seeds

I’m trying to fathom the space required to try germinating this many seeds - what an operation! Lots of filling, emptying and refilling nursery pots! How many blooms (approx!) can you let go to seed on the plant before it stops blooming?

Krista

Teddahlia Margaret knows how to coax seeds

This sounds like some impressive magic!

calico20hill

Teddahlia Powdery mildew devastated my garden last year!. I believe it came in on some cuttings I bought from a grower who lives in our area. I had never had it so bad before and see no sign of it this year.

Teddahlia

Krista How many blooms (approx!) can you let go to seed on the plant before it stops blooming?

Your assumption is that is that they stop blooming and they do not until cold weather. Pods ripen after they are pollinated and it takes several weeks for them to ripen. It is longer in cooler weather. It is much longer for larger pods especially giant pods that usually do not ripen seeds. Many varieties do not make seeds or very few seeds. We germinate 15-20 seeds in a small pot and transplant them to their own pot when they are tall enough. Many pots have no seeds that sprout. 20% is an overall average and some sprout at 80% and some not at all.

Krista

Teddahlia Your assumption

Ohhh yes, I was! This is awesome to know! Do the seed pods need to ripen on the plant or can they be plucked for ripening in a vase indoors?

Teddahlia

Every deviation from Mother nature has pluses and minuses. Seed pods ripen better on the plant. When hard frost is predicted and they are not yet ripe, you can pick them and theoretically they may ripen in a vase. We have done it many times but can only assume it worked.

Teddahlia

Karen Sanchez who grows organically lives down wind from a small forest. The fungus spores blew into her garden from the forest in late August and in a few weeks her dahlias looked like flocked Christmas trees.

Bessie

Hollyhill Daydream is making seeds in most every pod. I don't yet know if the seeds will be viable. I'll report back in February 2024.

calico20hill

I now do have powdery mildew but this is the normal time for it. Last year it started at the beginning of the season and was so awful by August. My garden is kind of in an air pocket at the bottom of a slope where shade sets in early so it is probably just naturally a "good place" for powdery mildew to develop. The area upslope has no water available to it.

Krista

Bessie Whoa this is so cool to find out, thank you for the update!