General Dahlia Chat 2023

blown_dry · 2023-02-04T23:41:17+00:00

Continuing from https://cubits.org/Dahlias/thread/view/91587/?offset=560#end_of_thread

SteveM

Cosey Same. I have only had Leafy Gall twice in 40 years. Once was my own seedling so I believe the bacteria that causes leafy gall persists in the soil and enters through wounds in the tubers Both cases were easily eradicated and it never showed up again. (last case was 15 years ago). I used to have much more problem with Crown Gall and would lose about 3% of my stock every year to crown gall.

KitCMC

Has anyone ever tried this?

https://www.evergreengrowers.com/nogall-for-crown-gall-disease.html

It’s only for crown gall, and not gone through the process for dahlia approval yet, but it may work. I heard about it here 👇

https://notillflowers.libsyn.com/part-2-beneficial-insects-and-natural-pest-control-with-margaret-parks-of-evergreen-growers-supply

Krista

KitCMC Yes, you’re on the right track I believe! I’m glad you shared this product, if I ever see crown gall in my garden, I’d be remiss not consider it. Now for more $/research on a product for use with the leafy one!

MIDahlias

AndreaB

AndreaB
Mine was in full sun last year and about 4ft tall. My mom's house has shade and planted on the west side of a privacy fence. The first blooms were lower than the fence, but like yours tge plant eventually was to tall to see the face of the blooms. Still stunning.

MIDahlias

Teddahlia
If I'm understanding what you've written. Its the growing conditions (I do agree with) and not the region (giving a second year to acclimate); why does the Classification Handbook of Dahlias list winners by region and total?

Teddahlia

If I'm understanding what you've written. Its the growing conditions (I do agree with). Growing conditions do vary from year to year. The most critical time of the year is when you plant and the month or so after that. Dahlias will grow very well in most later conditions if they get off to a good start. That is why our club at the trial garden starts the tubers in pots 30 days before the planting date.

“....giving a second year to acclimate.” This sentence implies that dahlias have a brain and remember what it was like last year and adjusts it's growth to those conditions. I disagree and although there may be some reasons for slightly less performance the first year, the plants do not “adjust”. The reasons may include planting late, slightly less of a nutrient package in the tuber, planting it in the shade of ta aller variety or any number of cultural reasons.

Why does the Classification Handbook of Dahlias list winners by region and total? The reason the ADS lists awards by areas is so the exhibitors can pick out varieties that win in their area. It may have something to do with how they grow in this region but just as likely it is what flowers the judges in those regions like better. Yes, judges in different areas of the USA have different values. I have judged with them on occasion and they definitely like traits I do not appreciate and vice versa. An example may be stem length and in the Eastern regions, they give an inordinate amount of extra points to flowers with long stems.
Seedling that Margaret liked mostly because it grew over 8 feet tall and it had long stems. Min FD DK PK .

MIDahlias

Teddahlia
I appreciate your detailed response. Thank you.

MIDahlias

I received the following email today. I didn't know Tony personally, but I know contributed articles for the ADS bulletins and hybridized some beautiful dahlias. I was in the cheap seats 2 years ago at the Midwest Dahlia Conference auction, where he was one of the panelist speaking and answering questions. I learned a lot about old school pest control that reminded me of my father. It was very interesting.

"It is with great sorrow that I must tell you of the passing of Anthony “Tony” Evangelista. Tony leaves behind wife Jackie, daughter Liz, son Tony, and two granddaughters. All of you who were privileged to know him, were blessed. Tony was an icon in the dahlia world. A very good dahlia grower and a great person! Tony always had time for us all. His accomplishments were many. More on Tony’s life later.

There are no immediate services planned at this time A “ Celebration of Life” will be announced in the spring. Those of us who would like to send a card to the family, may do so at:
The Evangelista Family
420 N. Washington St.
Delaware, OH 43015"

Sincerely,
Midwest Dahlia Conference
(Randy)

MissyWeitzel

MIDahlias oh Tony was wonderful. I asked him too many questions the first time I met him and he was gracious and kind. His approach to sharing information about organic methods of pest control in articles and talks came across in such a positive and non judgy way. I'm sad to hear this news. Thank you for sharing.

calico20hill

I, too, learned a lot about an organic way of growing dahlias from articles he wrote. It made a big difference in how i chose to grow my dahlias. I remember seeing a number of the dahlias he introduced though I could not tell you the names right now. It is sad when when one of our "teachers" passes.

Krista

calico20hill I also dug an anemone this week with what appears to be leafy gall along with a heavy amount of swollen lenticels. It was planted in the backyard to prevent pollen mixing but now I’m relieved it was planted way away from everyone else for this reason too. I’m a little chapped because it wasn’t a source I’d expect to receive gall-infected tubers from.

blown_dry

Krista Since gall infections can come from soil as well as tools and can be asymptomatic for an unknown amount of time it seems likely that any supplier could unknowingly ship infected stock. 🙁

calico20hill

I guess as the virus spreads we will be seeing more of it on sources other then our tubers. It sure takes the fun out of gardening when this happens. I guess we have to grow up and know that we have to be responsible for what we turn loose in our own gardens....how sad. Using disinfectants will become more a way of life as we garden...keeping our tools clean. I am actually switching off pairs of scissors in the Vircon as I cut up clumps. I sure hope that works. No other apparent virus since the one import, but I sure would not want to spread it to my seedlings!

Krista

calico20hill I thoroughly agree, that was the first clump I dug yesterday and it makes the task of digging the rest seem thoroughly un-fun. I’ve always been such a stickler with disinfecting tools, pulling questionable plants and being cautious about who I order tubers from, so this is very disheartening. It’s giving me pause and I’m questioning buying all plants anymore. I bleached everything, plus some, but now that you mention it, I’ll go ahead and get some Vircon ordered before I continue. I’ll move past this feeling but it was discouraging to say the least. I’m looking forward to wrapping up this year and getting to the dreaming-phase of planning for next year! 🌱

calico20hill

Krista We keep learning....and we keep coming back and trying again and learning from that. I hope I always have questions and new things to learn!

Teddahlia

I believe that the reason Dutch tubers have more leafy gall is that they mechanically harvest clumps and wash them all together. Water is the main vector to spread leafy gall. Yes, the bacteria can live in soil but more likely it is living in green plants near or in your garden. Water contaminated from those weeds or ornamental plants can infect the dahlias. Yes, a clump can have gall and the infection is not showing symptoms yet. So, sterilizing tools makes sense. Having said that washing tuber clumps when an infected clump is mixed in with other clumps is a real problem.

AndreaB

Teddahlia I’ve been wondering about the flower farmers that use mechanical equipment to harvest their tubers. They dig rows at a time. Some of the videos I’ve seen posted show the tubers bouncing down a conveyor belt and the dirt falling off around them. If there’s an infected plant, then all that dirt gets shaken onto the field. Are you suggesting that leafy gall is less likely to spread through contaminated soil than if the tubers were washed together?

Cosey

AndreaB

https://wildhorsegardens.com/dahlia-disease-biology-part-2-leafy-gall-rhodococcus-fascians/

I have had this article saved in my bookmarks for a while. I keep meaning to look up this scientist specifically relating to the work quoted in the screenshot.

I've seen both galls especially in my early growing years. I am inclined to believe it is not sticking around in my soil. I haven't seen either gall for years and if it did show up (on newly acquired stock) they are planted in an isolated area and plants growing in the same area in later years never showed signs. All the plants in the quarantine bed are always dug. Any that are kept usually stick around for a few season.

My main point is I don't think mechanical digging will be a huge risk to field stock. As long as disinfecting of tools with bleach at dividing is occuring, the risk of spreading during that time is also minimal.

Teddahlia

".... that leafy gall is less likely to spread through contaminated soil than if the tubers were washed together? Yes. Leafy Gall is known as a greenhouse disease spread by water. The bacteria like the water.

cmcramer

Another set of facts about Leafy Gall for you to consider: this season's single Thomas Edison tuber that exhibited gall by season's end was planted in new potting soil/seed starting mix as soon as it arrived, then into a greenhouse for a few weeks, then into a new garden bed. If the Leafy Gall bacteria did not come to me in/on that tuber, I can't imagine where it came from. None of its garden neighbors had the Gall.
The tuber cam from a LARGE North American supplier.

AndreaB

Cosey Happy to hear that. I haven’t taken the time to research it yet, but my concern has been growing. I’m just going to be a lot more cautious of who I buy and trade with.

Krista

Cosey I believe I’ve happened across this, and it’s a relief to be reminded. I’m with AndreaB, I was ready to throw in the towel on bringing in any new varieties anymore! 😅 A little time to reflect after the discover was enough to be reassured that I’ve been thoroughly managing my space, and have been religiously cleaning tools between plants throughout the entire summer. Realistically, the risk of any spread is next to zilch which I’m relieved about.

Teddahlia

"My main point is I don't think mechanical digging will be a huge risk to field stock." Digging is one thing . Washing them close to each other is another. Washing infected tuber clumps will cause infected water to to possibly infect other clumps. I agree that it is much less likely to get gall from infected soil.

Cosey

Teddahlia Washing infected tuber clumps will cause infected water to to possibly infect other clumps.

Very important clarification. It seems like some soil types allow for mostly clean tubers out of the field. Hopefully the hired help can quickly identify symptoms before crating or washing. Every clump is handled at some point.

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