Anemone Dahlias

SteveM

Is anyone breeding anemone dahlias to use as cut dahlias for market (increase vase life)? Or breeding to increase the size of anemone dahlias? Or combining anemone genetics with other forms to create new forms?

I have only grown one variety of anemone dahlias and I grew it again this year (after many years). There seems to be a lot of room for experimenting with anemone dahlias.

Alpen Fury:

Teddahlia

There was an anemone breeder in Australia that really put in the work work to improve them. After many years , he died and not much results. There is a fundamental issue with breeding them larger: the disc florets are only in the disc center and disc centers are small and no one has bred a much larger disc center.

SteveM

Teddahlia I have a single seedling with a noticeably larger disc center. Also, larger wouldn't necessarily mean a proportionately larger center, just larger ray florets. A 6" anemone should be easily doable. (and still look like an anemone)

Teddahlia

You can be the first to get a 6 inch one. I am pessimistic.

SteveM

I have more ideas than time. I am trying to convince someone else to create it.

MissyWeitzel

SteveM I have a couple of AN seedlings that are year 2 this season and haven't bloomed yet. It had not occurred to me to try to work on getting large AN seedlings, though it's an appealing idea! I did think working on micro ANs would be an interesting project. The pink and yellow seedling here was on the small side, though I failed to actually measure and record that info last year.

I have half heartedly tried to increase my chances of large collarette seedlings. Ferncliff Dolly is the largest named CO I grow and it's seedlings often carry that trait. I have some large CO seedlings I saved planted with Ferncliff Dolly as well as COs that have other characteristics I like, such as shimmer and a super cheerful appearance.

I have sort of started collecting more and more named AN, COs and micro dahlia cultivars, though not in an overly fanatical way. With so many dahlia sellers stocking kind of the same 300 super popular "it girl" tubers, I want to differentiate my business a little. I'll still grow a lot of popular stuff, but working towards stocking more midwest intros, and a good number of open center offerings including micros.

Teddahlia

I cannot believe that the ADS is so restrictive on anemone dahlias. Remember they have totally different florets called disc florets and why the hell do they say they have to be tube shaped? Big floppy disc florets combined with ray florets makes for an exotic and pretty flower.

SteveM

MissyWeitzel I think that is very wise to specialize in your own niche and, now that ADS has the micro classes, that is a group that has a lot of room for additions. You can be the "Micro Queen"🙂.
My father specialized in collarettes and micros because, when he started showing, the closest show was about 500 miles away and it was much easier to carry collarettes to the show than the larger forms. Also, in Montana some years he could only get seed from open-centered varieties.

MissyWeitzel

Oops pics didn't come along.

Juliarugula

MissyWeitzel I think your pink AN is super sweet.

MissyWeitzel

SteveM speaking of your father, I finally got my hands on U2 Fire this year and I'm excited!

We had Eugene and Rosie from River's as Zoom guests at one of our society meetings a few months back. Rosie said rather than get stock and wait a whole year to grow a particular variety to use for breeding purposes, she'll regularly ask to take blooms home after shows to use the pollen for hand crossing. I was inspired! Sometimes you can't get a cutting or tuber right away, but a past prime bloom definitely opens up a lot of possibilities.

Do you know if dahlia pollen can be sent in the mail? I wonder if pollen trading is doable. It sure would be fun to try.

MissyWeitzel

Juliarugula hopefully it's sweet this year too 😊

Teddahlia

MissyWeitzel My opinion: Pollen from spent blooms is better than no pollen but the bees will have added some wrong pollen to the blooms. There are lots of levels of hand crossing and covered pollen flowers and covered mother flowers are best. Isolation beds are the easiest way to encourage bees to cross the dahlias you have selected. The late Mike Ier had excellent results from his isolation beds. The Bolyys do them too.

SteveM

MissyWeitzel I wonder if pollen trading is doable.

I haven't researched the viability of dahlia pollen kept at room temp/refrigeration/freezing but the information is available out there. I'm just guessing but I imagine shipping frozen pollen would be the best bet but may be expensive. I wonder if it would work to cut a bagged bloom just as the first row of pollen is showing, and shipping it with a short stem in a floral water tube? Probably could also remove all the ray florets before shipping.

Justafewdahlias

MissyWeitzel

Would a flower used at a show have been collected before pollen was showing/center was open? For fully double types that is? If so this makes me think the chance of pollen contamination to be low, and a good source of pollen from a plant you want to use in crossing.

I find it to be pretty easy to pop an organza bag on an immature bloom. I don’t have loads of dahlias, so I cover nearly all of mine anyways. To cover a few blooms for someone to ensure the pollen isn’t contaminated, that feels like a small request.

I feel like it’s worth trying out! Even if it was collected fresh from the plant say scraped into an envolope and mailed. It would be low cost/risk to mail some pollen. Probably only the cost of a stamp, just fold the pollen up in a piece of paper inside the envelope.

I know I used previously collected pollen during my crosses (a couple days old). I would always try to collect more fresh pollen IF there was any available off the plant I wanted pollen from, even if it was a minuscule amount. And then use both the fresh and the old pollen. So who knows which one actually pollinated my plants. I am sure there were some crosses where it was only old pollen available. Because I only had one of each plant so to have a bloom ready to accept and a bloom making pollen to align didn’t always happen. I want to say somewhere I heard fresher pollen gets better chance of pollination occurring/taking. So that made me want to use fresh pollen off the living plant. If I’m going through all the effort to hand cross I want it to actually make some seeds! I didn’t keep track of what plants I used only old pollen on and the results of those crosses but that’s something I will pay attention to for this year if it occurs.

This forum seems to have lots of people who like a good backyard experiment/trial! I might repeat some crosses that were successful with “old” pollen this season and see what happens.

I love this idea! Both pollen exchange and using leftover show flowers as a pollen source. I feel like in the PNW there could easily be a “pollen swap” meet up. There are so many dahlia clubs, or just people growing dahlias in general. If there are lots of people hybridizing in your local club you could have it at a meeting even!

MissyWeitzel

Teddahlia Thank you for the insight, Ted!

MissyWeitzel

SteveM that's a great idea!

MissyWeitzel

Justafewdahlias A pollen swap would be fun! I know next to nothing about pollen, but I believe it degrades quickly if not kept cold and maybe that's why Ted and Steve suggest to ship with an ice pack but better yet to trade flowers (that were covered) so the recipient can use the pollen once it is freshly produced. Covered flower stem swapping totally sounds doable!

Teddahlia

Longshot; Daylily breeders may have some pollen sharing procedures. Years ago, I read something online about what they did. Since we do not save pollen, I have not paid much attention to the issue.