Virus and Nutritional problems

Bessie · 2023-02-17T00:21:26+00:00

Continuing the conversation about virus, coming from the "Taking Dahlia Cuttings" thread... I found this video a beginner's overview of Dahlia virus. There's...

Cosey

calico20hill It is mostly my seedling tubers, 1st and 2nd year that I am concerned with. I guess I wonder whether it is something genetic

Do the seed and possible pollen parents make good storable root stock? If the genetics are new to you, then maybe you are growing seedlings that innately don't store well and nature is working against you. Just something to consider when looking at the forrest instead of the trees.

Cosey

calico20hill I do believe the problem comes from the soil being too wet where they were grown.

A lack of oxygen to the tubers can definitely impact the tuber structure and development of a dahlia. I have a farm friend that grows hydroponically and he wondered if dahlias could be grown that way. He grew cuttings and seeds and the plants grew very healthy above the waterline and only made fibrous roots in the water solution. However, when they dismantled the tank they found tiny tuber clusters forming on the stem just above the waterline. This was hidden due to the foam boards they use to hold the plants in place.

calico20hill

Cosey, that is fascinating! I think you might be on to something here. I will definitely focus on checking the amount of water these beds are getting next time around! Interesting that one of my seedlings in a different bed..I think this one is 3rd year now....made huge enormous well storing tubers and I have no idea what its parentage is. I am beginning to see the need for more record keeping then I have been doing.

calico20hill

So this is to show that I can grow a seedling that is big and strong and has wonderful tubers! It was growing at the start of bed 3...I sure would like to have tubers like those on the first row seedlings!This one is Salish Breaking Dawn and is being grown at Triple Wren Farms this past year for evaluation.

Teddahlia

Tuber characteristics are genetic. You can make them them a bit bigger by cultural things like fertilizer but most of it is genetics. One factor is the amount of time in the ground during the favorable growing season. They do get bigger in a longer growing season. and one way to extend the growing season is to start them in gallon pots 30-40 days before your planting date. Remember too that one trick of the trade is to plant a first year "too small" clump whole the next year and the tubers will be bigger the second year. I remember first reading about this trick when a person could not get tubers from Camano Cloud and the second year clump had nice tubers. The trick has been enhanced by the practice of harvesting the top couple of tubers from a clump and then planting the bottom portion of the clump where the tubers are smaller or harder to divide, whole and continuing the practice ad infinitum. A grower said this worked well for a shy tuber producer. All of these methods to increase tuber production are because the breeder did not breed good tubers into his/her product. But when a super nice flower appears in the seedlings and it is a shy tuber maker/keeper and you know that there are ways to grow it , should you toss it or keep it? Most of us keep it,
Gregor's Mad is one of the names of this one that is a crappy tuber maker but is still gown 20 years later. It is a Danish dahlia and as of few year sago, the breeder(Gregersdahl) was was still alive and in his 90s. It is related to Duet introduced in 1955, Duet is one of the more popular varieties sold in Dutch tuber packs. If you can get some good stock of Duet, it worth growing. Get stock from someone who has grown it disease free in their garden.

AndreaB

Teddahlia It is related to Duet introduced in 1955

I grow Gregor’s Mikkel and it had a couple blooms this year that looked like Duet. It’s never done this before and I’m hoping it’s not reverting back to it’s parentage.

calico20hill

Well that idea gives me a lot to think about, Ted. And thanks to all responders on my question. New plan...tell my water manager (husband) to cut back on the watering. Check the soil moisture level several times mid season to make further adjustments, and look for seed parents that make good tubers. Apparently my Breaking Dawn makes good tubers. As I continue to pack tubers I will keep a list of those that looks the.best. I will also compare notes on what my neighbor is finding with the seedlings I gave her to grow out.

calico20hill

calico20hill Just wanted to add that I am finding much better tubers from other parts of my garden. They seem to look better since I moved them into the garage instead of the greenhouse about a week ago. Still packing but down to the last 5 flats to sort and pack. I am pcking them in misted wood chips and cinnamon which I had good luck with last year. I did find one bag of wood cips that had clumps of mold in it... and some tubers were packed in it before iI
got to the moldy chunks. Do keep an eye on your packing material! Most Hollyhill tubers did well and of course the Swan Island ones look well. I don't have as many Hollyhill varieties as I would like to have but the ones I do have should be savable! I need to make lists of which ones to re-acquire! Also need new stock of my favorite HH Hello Dolly as mine is open centered this year.

Teddahlia

I think I lost HH Hello Dolly. It is a seedling of HH Margarita. That makes it related to HH Cotton Candy.

calico20hill

Teddahlia I am sorry you lost HH Hello Dolly. Just because I like it so much that I want my friends to have it too so it can bring them happiness. So I guess I am on the hunt for new stock of her from anyone else who is careful about virused stock.

AKWindWatcher

calico20hill Maybe Thomas @ HOE has it? He's a big collector of all things HH. I think he might be Ted's biggest fan. 🙂

Teddahlia

Noni's picture of HH Hello Dolly

calico20hill

Teddahlia Thank you for brining that picture up! I had forgotten it, but what a wonderful time I was having with them and the hydrangeas, making b9ouquets for a Farm to Table event back on Vashon Island!

NCDahlia

That's too bad. I got a tuber of it 2 year ago from Connell's and it did well for me, but the vole ate this year. Pretty much every IC was planted together and they wiped out the entire row. I liked growing it by hh peachy keen was a nice color combo

Teddahlia

Noni, my finding of the picture was pure luck as I was looking for something else(that I never did find).

calico20hill

Thanks! That is good to know. I need to restock several of my favorite older Hollyhill dahlias...It would be nice to be able to make one order and get my favorites growing again.

Krista

I’m wondering if anyone here can help identify what’s happening with this plant? It’s in a friend’s grow room, indoors, and is the only plant showing these brown spots on the underside of the leaves? I haven’t seen this before and it’s on one of their precious seedlings.

Bessie

Krista while I'm tempted to say it's some sort of fungal or bacterial spot disease, the fact the plant is in a small pot makes me also suspect a nutrient zinc deficiency. I'd love to see what the underside spots look like under a microscope ( is it fuzzy?). That close examination could help with the diagnosis.
Here's zinc deficiency in potatoes:
https://www.yara.co.uk/crop-nutrition/potato/nutrient-deficiencies-potatoes/zinc-deficiency-potatoes/

SteveM

Krista My complete guess is fungal but, as Bessie said, it would require more diagnostics to know for sure. If it were mine and it was only on a few lower leaves I would just remove and dispose of the leaves.

Krista

Bessie
SteveM

Thank you so much, I will relay your help to my friend. I wish I had a microscope to look more closely!

Krista

I went down a little rabbit hole after your suggestions, Bessie & SteveM, and I’m leaning towards possibly a rust of some sort now — Thank you! This the following article on rust was helpful to me, and I’m sharing the link which includes management, in case it’s helpful to others as well. Thanks again for weighing in!

https://hortsense.cahnrs.wsu.edu/fact-sheet/common-diseases-rusts/

Krista

SteveM Thank you thank you! I rushed to the rust conclusion and shared your response to it with my friend. It sounds like this plant has been sharing space under fans with the other plants for quite sometime now but she’s going to treat for fungal and go from there.

I did pass on the note about a nutritional deficiency, even though it’s a warmer environment perhaps it’s a deficiency due to the small pot like Bessie mentioned.

Thank you both so much for your time looking at these photos and sharing your experience and knowledge. My friend definitely has lots more to go on now and hopefully can get her seedling nice and healthy very soon. 💓

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