Virus and Nutritional problems

Bessie · 2023-02-17T00:21:26+00:00

Continuing the conversation about virus, coming from the "Taking Dahlia Cuttings" thread... I found this video a beginner's overview of Dahlia virus. There's...

blown_dry

SteveM Of course, this is not practical, even for the small commercial grower who cuts a few thousand stems every week.

I wonder if good cut flower varieties are more tolerant of viruses and that's part of why they are productive and widely available. People trying to keep their garden divas from getting sick might be fighting a different fight.

SteveM

blown_dry I wonder if good cut flower varieties are more tolerant of viruses and that's part of why they are productive and widely available.

Probably the reason a show or cut variety has been around for years is because the tubers store well. The divas are kept around thanks to the growers who do not care about show or cut dahlias. 🙂

Teddahlia

Not enough is written about virus resistance. We all know of varieties that never seem to get sick.

Cosey

blown_dry Covid has a coating made of fats making it very susceptible to detergents.

I do know DMV has a protein membrane coating. That's as far as my education goes and I only looked it up because of my investigation on finding an appropriate disinfectant for my field. I do not know if there is a difference between protein coatings. I think there may be because TSV has a protein coating and bleach worked better at disinfecting than alcohol. Alcohol is suppose to be best at denaturing proteins. 🤷‍♀️ I really can educate myself into a vortex of uncertainty.

Someone smarter than me and with more resources needs to think about this. 😆

I will say this. After 3 years of implementing my disease management plan, I've had all negative tests for RNA viruses this year. I spend mid four digits a year on testing to isolate and find my propagation stock. It's is very possible for flower farmers to manage RNA. DNA virus are a different story. Given the success I've had with RNA virus you would think DNA would follow a similar trajectory but that it not what I am finding. It's perplexing and frustrating.

SteveM

Cosey "I really can educate myself into a vortex of uncertainty."

Great quote/meme. 🙂

janell

Cosey (catching up on months of activity, but your comment is recent) I am also struggling with DMV detection and elimination. I have two plants that tested negative for DMV this spring at two labs, yet those plants now show symptoms. These plants have been grown exclusively in my basement since early June and have not had any aphid exposure.

Meanwhile sister cuttings (same parent tuber) of one of these plants were grown in my field, were surrounded by DMV- plants, were asymptomatic, and yet tested DMV+ at Agdia this fall.

Was DMV present in the mother tuber from the onset but the tests miss it this spring? Could activation of DMV-EPRV be possible? It’s bewildering.

Krista

I am curious about the risk of bringing gall into the garden on other plants such as Dutch bulbs and perennials. I ask because the plant I discovered gall on this fall was planted in my backyard, nestled into my perennial bed between a rose and a peony. That spot has had many plants rotated through, some purchased at Lowe’s certainly, and others from my local plant nursery. How likely is it that perennial beds supporting plants from less thoughtful sources may already be infected with leafy gall? My front beds are new and have only ever grown dahlias, but it makes me wonder if I need to rethink poking dahlias throughout our property.

Bessie

Krista gall can be in other plants. I like this article from UK National Dahlia Society to provide a nice explanation. https://www.dahlia-nds.co.uk/gall-leafy-gall/

Krista

Bessie Thank you for sharing this link. My question is whether there is less concern about bringing gall into our spaces when buying known host plants other than dahlias, but this is indeed a nice article.

Teddahlia

Diva: The word “diva” apparently does not refer to a temperamental opera star. The third in a list of definitions is “a self-important person who is temperamental and difficult to please.” I suppose a “diva” dahlia is one that can be good looking with enough “make up”(fertilizer, water and superlative care). One that you would never see on the street(opera singer) or in your grocery store(the new market for dahlias and no opera stars are there either). One that is probably overpriced for what you get and if you by chance or intention grow it well, you will post it's glorious picture on social media, gloating over the number of “likes” you get. I wonder what dahlia fits this definition the best?

Bessie

Krista , sorry I missed your main question! I also saw this in a Google search for "what plants carry gall'

In gardens, Chrysanthemum, Dahlia, Lathyrus (sweet pea), Nicotiana, Pelargonium (geranium) and strawberries are among the plants most commonly attacked. Expect to see this disease in summer.
https://www.rhs.org.uk › disease › l...
Leafy gall / RHS Gardening

Krista

Bessie Not a problem, I’m sure I haven't been clear.

I’ve collected the following articles over the years regarding crown and leafy gall. I’m just curious about the disconnect in supporting imported glads and tulips, or introducing other known host plants willy nilly into our garden beds when it’s so gravely considered in regards to where we are planting the dahlias.

Hosts plants of leafy gall
https://bpp.oregonstate.edu/sites/agscid7/files/bpp/attachments/artifically-inoculated-hosts-that-tested-positive-for-rhodococcus-fascians.pdf

Inoculated plants where leafy gall tested positive:
https://bpp.oregonstate.edu/sites/agscid7/files/bpp/attachments/naturally-occurring-hosts-of-rhodococcus-fascians.pdf

Another list of leafy gall host plants
https://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/pdf/10.1094/PDIS-91-9-1064?fbclid=IwAR0z1NSEeLcHIia4mIV-b02jEqOMlvX5xAwPiJJJtB3Doh02sBQ4ASFUeH0

Crown gall host plants:
https://pnwhandbooks.org/plantdisease/pathogen-articles/pathogens-common-many-plants/bacteria-other-prokaryotes/crown-gall

Plants susceptible to crown gall:
https://bpp.oregonstate.edu/sites/agscid7/files/bpp/attachments/agrobacterium_hosts_annotated.pdf

Juliarugula

Krista I’m just curious about the disconnect in supporting imported glads and tulips, or introducing other known host plants willy nilly into our garden beds when it’s so gravely considered in regards to where we are planting the dahlias.

When I first started growing dahlias and became aware of leafy gall, I had a “hey, that looks like…” moment in regards to a phlox plant that had never done well since I planted it. I’m pretty sure I was right (it’s obviously long gone now). But, in general, I try not to tuck many dahlias into other parts of the garden, for this and many other reasons…

calico20hill

I am happy to say I have not seen it among my sweet peas but I did not know to look for it. I grow most of my plants from seed, other then dahlias, and a few gladioli. I do hope not to see it pop up again but at least in my raised beds I could likely change out the soil if I did...or rather hire someone to change it out. Now we are starting to empty the grow bags I used...did not find crown gall on any of those 70 tubers, thank goodness...my purchased soil was not the best (Mostly Columbia River sand, I think) but at least no disease apparent.

Juliarugula

Teddahlia Hosta Virus X
2.75 tablespoons of Alconox® (a type of lab detergent) plus 2.5 tablespoons of sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS), also known as sodium dodecyl sulfate (SDS), in one gallon of water, or
14 dry ounces of trisodium phosphate in one gallon of water.

Not to derail us, but I’m curious if these recommendations are in addition to a 10% bleach solution option? During my hosta enthusiast days (about 7 years ago now…) bleach was considered the gold standard for HVX. Has that changed?

Teddahlia

Here is the link to where I read about the formula: https://pddc.wisc.edu/wp-content/blogs.dir/39/files/Fact_Sheets/FC_PDF/Hosta_Virus_X.pdf

calico20hill

OK, this is a nutrition question, not a virus one.

I fertilize my dahlia raised beds according to the "Prescription" from the Soil testing we do each year (Professional test where PDS has a discount). My plants grew nicely and bloomed beautifully. The tubers though....horrible! I do realize the ground was overwatered. But is that the sole reason my tubers shrink up into little wrinkled wads as they dry? A few did not. Swan Island ones don't. My Salish 'Breaking Dawn ' did not. there were a few others that did not but most of them did. I had that trouble the 2nd year with my bed also and many of them did not survive storage. I am misting down the Pet bedding wood shavings I use. I am sprinkling each layer in the crates with cinnamon just in case.

What change can I make next year to avid this?

Cosey

calico20hill Can you post a pic of the tubers before you stored them?

Tell me about your conditions the week after you put them up.

Drying/shriveling can be immature tubers and/or too dry. Do you have a thermometer with humidity reading to monitor them?

SteveM

Noni, if you had great plants, blooms, and strong stems then I doubt it is a nutritional problem.
My thinking is the same as LeeAnn's. Did you dig these tubers earlier than last year? (immature tubers). Possibly they were too dry when put into storage? A tuber shouldn't dry to the point of shriveling or being soft before being put in storage.
If I were you I would experiment with any extra tubers I had of one variety. Let one batch dry to the point you do now, put another batch into storage while still solid and moist, and another batch in a different storage medium. (e.g. slightly moist but rolled up in newspaper, etc.). Check them all after one week.
Hopefully, the ones that are storing well for you are your seedlings!

calico20hill

I can take a pic tomorrow as I am in the midst of packing them. Husband dug and washed the tuber clumps and they were in the greenhouse while I spent a week cutting up the clumps. Humidy levels should have been high in there as there was water on the cement floor from using the hose for additional cleanups. The tubers were on the shelves while I cut all of them up, then taken to the garage every few days to clear the greenhouse. Now I am packing them into the crates and working in the big garage. Temps are fairly low but comfortable. I have a small space heater for my feet under the tabel and an overheat heat lamp but it is not on the dahlias, only on me while I am working on them. Our air is not particularly dry...we''ve had rain for several days each week..in fact heavy rain on some of the days. ( Lawn is finally greened back up from the summer). These are fairly normal temperatures and humidity levels for Nov. The shriveling is definitely abnormal for our location. The tubers may be immature but should not be as they have been in the ground a full season. THat is what is puzzling me. Why are they small and immature for the most part? They were planted out late Mayt o early June, and dug Early Nov. That is the usual time in the ground. We had some hot days but not much over 100...not a heat dome. We've had some cold days this fall but only about 3 nights of frost that killed the leaves and at the regular time for that to happen.

I think that somehow they are not getting the. nutrition they need to build strong cells. and/or I had the drip system running too long each day. We turned off the drip system as soon as the fall rains started. I did give them a feed through the injector system a couple of times in mid July and early Aug

Cosey

I think if you were to know the relative humidity of your dividing space and track it over time it would fluctuate more significantly than you think in your current setting, especially the greenhouse. Water on the floor doesn't always equal atmospheric water content.

I think it's an environmental issue. I would shorten the time from dividing to storage to 48 hours. Fresh dahlia tubers are very much like new potatoes. There is a dynamic process of respiration that is happening while they adjust to long term storage. Keeping the RH in the 90% range while keeping the tubers dry (and healing) is your goal.

You moved to this new place 2 years ago? And have had trouble both seasons? You might need to rethink your process and packing materials.

Govee is a brand multiple people have recommended to me for accurate humidity readings. I'll be trying it this year. In the past I've used Acurite, but they accuracy is questionable. I feel like I've had some devices work well for a long time and others never read correctly.

« Previous Page Next Page »