General Dahlia Chat 2024
5 of my 6 raised beds planted...Will do the 6th after lunch. Its down to which growing seedlings and tubers would I most miss if I didn't find space for! (The Hollyhills are all in and so are those from my other favorite hybridizers). And lots and lots of Salish Seedlings!
THe weather is perfect for planting out today! It is comfortably warm, not hot, with rain coming tomorrow.
I planted a row that is on a slight slope. Like a dummy, I chose to plant going down hill. Several times over the years, we have found that older people like us need to plant going uphill as going downhill is really hard on the legs. Why did I not remember that? And when I told Margaret, she was not sympathetic. Once I made the superhuman effort to get up off the ground, I sat in a chair for 10 minutes to recover. If I were in my mid 20s I would not pay attention to this post and forget it I until turned 70 and tried planting going downhill. 
I DID NOT BUY THIS BICOLOR FLOWER AT FRED MEYER.
Dahlia Talk is 7PM tonight Pacific Time. Here is the link if you do not have it.
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/87070954664?pwd=OUhWOG90UUpHNENiMU5sWHZpczFEdz09
MIDahlias One of the history minded dahlia growers posted that ages ago (20's? 50's?) no one staked their dahlias and they just sort of flopped over when they wanted it and everything was okay, kind of like a tomato plant. Having forgotten to stake one bed lastyear, that was my experience. They flopped, they were fine, I probably got less flowers because some flopped inconsiderately on top of a neighbor, but I got decent enough tubers
On a different topic there was a good question about productivity of mother tubers versus new tubers in the Australia dahlia growers group on Facebook. I do wonder if mother tubers are better at making their replacements.
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bloomhjelm Interesting! This would jive with ending up with monster clumps when not divided regularly, and with the practice of not dividing poor tuber producers every year.
bloomhjelm That is interesting! I sometimes keep mother tubers if a new plant does not produce many tubers, although I try to keep another, often small, tuber attached to the mother tuber. I will have to keep track of production from these compared to first year tubers this year.
Article I wrote for the Portland Dahlia Society Bulletin:
Dahlia Talk
05-28-23
Headline:
Usual Well Organized Session Devolves into a Fertilizer Laden Melee
By Ted J. Kennedy
About 25-30 avid participants from the USA and one from Australia were in attendance. There was one person missing and that was Dan Baulig who organizes the session. He had the excuse of watching his grandchild play on a baseball team vying for a State Championship. He will gladly tell you how their team won and how his grandchild contributed to the victory.
We spent most the two hours on the most popular subject for dahlia growers, especially at this time of the year and that was FERTILIZER with some soil type discussion, herbicide warnings, macro nutrients and micro nutrients and numerous stories from the past on how someone used to do it. And lots of personal experience was shared. I will list numerous fertilizer suggestions and a sentence or two about it.
One quick comment. Over the years, there have always been organic growers and growers who use less than organic solutions to grow dahlias. 30 years ago when fertilizer was discussed at club meetings nearly all of the growers used chemical fertilizer with abandon. At this meeting, I do not believe there was a single person who only used chemical fertilizer and most were converts to organic solutions especially when they work so well.
Soil acidity was discussed and two areas in the USA were identified, one here in the PNW where most soils are acidic and the places in the USA where soil is alkaline. In a way, pH discussions are like true confessions, when people admit they could do more to correct their soil pH. Lime is used here in the PNW and sulfur is used in alkaline gardens. Dolomite lime was compared to regular lime.
Magnesium is related to the pH discussion and this micro nutrient is often somewhat deficient in soil tests. Dolomite lime is one of the recommended cures as it has the nutrient and corrects pH very well. We had a minor discussion on Epsom salts, magnesium sulfate and I believe it is an organic chemical that can be used.
Fertlilizer Rates: Soil tests were discussed and they frequently express their fertilizer recommendations in pounds per acre and pounds per 1,000- square feet. One person was confused as he wanted a recommendation for fertilizer per plant. We tried to express how we determine how much fertilizer to use and the frequency of the application. I am not going to try list the solutions but they were very enlightening.
Phosphorus was discussed in great depth. The main issue for most of the people is that when they get their soil test back it says their garden has too much phosphorus with a common comment: very high. The negatives of too much phosphorus were discussed. We also talked about the “low nitrogen “ fertilizer recommendations that have caused much of the problem. Some discussion was on how to lower the phosphorus levels. Number one is not to add more phosphorus to the soil and that includes bone meal. At least then the problem would not get worse. Several people related they have been unsuccessful in lowering the phosphorus levels even though they have not added any in several years. I could say you should have been there to get an answer to the issue but will say that one solution to lower phosphorus levels is to remove a crop from the garden and that crop would have phosphorus in it. Farmers harvest crops and remove them from the soil and this lowers phosphorus. Dahlia growers remove only flowers. Removing the dahlia stalks at harvest time may really help in this issue.
Types of fertilizers Discussed: Bat guano, types of compost, and one that was talked about more than others was chicken feather meal. The meal releases nitrogen slowly over several months. One chicken feather user user had the only soil test done in the spring that showed adequate nitrogen was still in the soil. Many of us have never seen a test with those results. He also uses some leaf mold and covers it to protect it from the rain and that too may be why he does not loose nitrogen. Many types of manure and manure tea were discussed. Worm tea was discussed in some detail. Sea weed of various types was discussed and it was noted that you cannot legally gather it from beaches. Of course, that was said after the person reported that it was the best fertilizer she had ever used. Fish fertilizers of the liquid type and pellet type were discussed. Warren Vigor's fertilizer was discussed in positive comments. Many more and you should have been there to hear the various fertilizer stories.
Compost and herbicide was discussed and the mushroom compost herbicide debacle was discussed.
Mulch was discussed and the risks and benefits ranged from total disaster and the loss of an entire dahlia garden to it was the best thing I ever did for the dahlias. In summary, mulch is not good when the ground is wet and cold in the spring and is good when it gets very hot and it cools the soil temps and preserves moisture. Lots of discussion and you must do it right if you do it.
No till Gardening was discussed in some detail.
Soil Types were discussed and sandy clay soil was discussed along with clay and more clay. Swan Island Dahlias wonderful soil was discussed.
Other miscellaneous subjects were talked about including getting tubers to show eyes. Teresa Bergman went though her successful process where she used damp vermiculite in plastic shoe boxes. Tuber rot was talked about a bit. One subject that was not discussed was leafy gall and I was glad as it has been talked to death. This summary of the session is woefully inadequate and I will always say you should been there and most of what was discussed has not been included here.
Missed it again! I’ll have to try for the next one.
Spring has been busy this yr! With growing and canning the majority of our own food it’s always a max rush in the spring to get things in the ground in a timely manner. This spring I ended up on antibiotics for lymes and the antibiotic I’m taking the side affects are it makes you sensitive to sun so that has slowed things down a bit but I am now down to the last dahlia seedlings to plant out. Pics of seedling blooms are really making me envious but our season is just starting here so it will be awhile for me yet!
Are there more dahlias out there that have markings similar to BJ Dusty Rose? Where it fades out into white? I kind of like that air brushed look it has instead of the abrupt change of colors most of the dahlias with white have.
BackyardBouquets_17 I'm sorry to hear you were ill, that really does interfere with the best plans! I am anxiously waiting for pictures of your seedlings
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The different USA climates are somewhat baffling to me. Here in the PNW, we often have cool weather during the Spring and although there is no frost, it is not warm enough to grow dahlias. Tubers do better than plants during this time. Then it slowly improves and nighttime temps are good for planting. It takes about a month of cool spring weather to get the growing season going.
In the Mid west, the weather seems to switch to planting time overnight. Winter one day, planting time the next. And I am talking mostly about night time temps here. No problem as the night time temps are fine.
Then we must talk about the weather at the end of the season. Our best dahlia growing time is from about September 1st to October 15th. Frost is supposedly expected around Halloween but seldom happens by then and some years it has not frosted for Thanksgiving and we put some dahlia flowers on the table. In the Midwest, again the switch from summer does not seem to include Fall and frost occurs in mid September when we are having our best flowers for another month.
Having not lived in the Mid west, have I got this weather thing right?
Gorgeous "Planting out" weather here, and I should be done by this evening. I only have half of one of the 6 raised beds left to plant., and then the "grow bags" at the borders. I will have to choose very carefully what makes the cut for that space! I still have seedlings I very much want to find room for. The rain showers that have happened over the last few days has been a boon that helped get the "other" flower beds off to a good start.
Teddahlia Having not lived in the Mid west, have I got this weather thing right?
Your description of Midwest spring is spot on, but we do definitely have a proper fall. Usually where I am (NW Indiana) we don’t get a first frost until early November and the dahlias are fabulous until then.
My guess is that you’ve heard many of us talk about digging even in September, especially in October. I usually get going well before the first frost with my digging/washing/dividing, because once we get frost there’s always a possibility of a good snow or a hard freeze, which can make everything more difficult. Especially because then I need to switch off my outdoor water. So it’s not that we don’t get fall - it just usually happens before the first frost, not after.
In Kalispell, Montana, It was said that you had about two weeks to dig after the first frost as the big freeze would arrive and the ground would be frozen. Our digging season extends into December in most years.
BackyardBouquets_17 I sometimes think of that diffuse color distribution as “color dusting.” I wonder if there is an agreed upon name for that trait? “Arabian Not”, Hemisphere, Sellwood Glory & Temple of Beauty kind of have a bit of that going on, but the contrast color is much stronger, with less white. N-Force and some others do “color dusting” patterns, but with different colors. I really like traits that make the petals have an ombre effect or look like an artist air-brushed or did shading with the colors…petal fade of older petals can be gorgeous that way, too. I thought Le Baron was lovely because of the way the fade to lighter petal tips was graduated.
Come to think of it, Kelgai Ann & a seedling I saw at the WCDS 2023 show have a similar color distribution to BJ’s Dusty Rose.
Kelgai Ann:
Seedling by John & Carmen Sullivan:
