Dahlia Mania

BarryO

Cosey
It is indeed a broken system.
If you know your inventory will sell out online in an hour or two, should you feed the frenzy by repeatedly announcing the sale date, time and offer strategies to secure the tubers you want? Sure, any seller has the right to do so, however well-intentioned. But isn’t that just stoking the fire?
On a slightly different issue, should a seller be applauded for selling a tuber for $40 or $80 or $120 ? Sure a seller is entitled to sell for whatever the market will bear. But in your gut, one probably knows whether should conduct is worthy of approval.

blown_dry

BarryO I think the only thing that will appease people is getting the tubers they want. No amount of making the sale more difficult to access or easier to access will change that core truth. Making it more difficult to access for some to make it easier for others doesn't really make more people happy just different people. Suppliers have been working all year to grow that crop. If they don't advertise, gambling that they don't need to, they are risking a devastating surprise without any compensating hope of additional reward. For that reason, I feel like suppliers should do whatever works best for themselves because they will only please as many people as they have tubers no matter what they do.
I do support sellers selling their product for what the market will bear. Partly because I don't think it's immoral to make money from ephemeral fad behavior vs. if they were doing that with insulin or epipens or food. Partly because small farming is very challenging to make a profit at, very challenging to make anything like a fair wage for the time invested, and often dirty, cold monotonous work. Partly because there are oodles of beautiful, affordable varieties available so the high prices on some do not even lock people out of having a bounteous, gorgeous dahlia garden. I spoke with a supplier last year who said they made a point of having a lot of offerings at a low price point because they were concerned about pricing people out and almost no one ordered them. Because of my job, I've spent a few years meticulously watching what sells out and how fast, and it's clear that the majority of people take their cue about how valuable the variety is and how good they will feel about buying it from the price charged. Also, compared to the leisure time and the land needed to grow dahlias, even a hefty tuber cost is really a negligible part of the cost of this hobby.
Is it obvious that I think about this stuff constantly while I am documenting the frenzy for 7-10 hours a day? 😂

Cosey

BarryO should a seller be applauded for selling a tuber for $40 or $80 or $120 ? Sure a seller is entitled to sell for whatever the market will bear. But in your gut, one probably knows whether should conduct is worthy of approval.

I'm not sure if this was a rhetorical question but I'm game for answering. I've read online comments referring to some growers being "profiteers" or practicing "price gouging".

I don't think this is being practiced by the selling community at large for the following reasons-

Those selling are not using inconsistent practices within a healthy, competitive market.
There hasn't been an unexpected change in inventory (ie, huge loss of tubers in a large area (natural disaster)or supplier).

I think sellers are reading the room and testing the waters to see where the ceiling is. Prices have been incrementally increasing over the last 5 years at all large sales. Even Swan Island radically modified their new intro price the last two seasons.

At the end of the day, new intros and in demand varieties are a low cost luxury item and there is always a segment of a market that will buy into it. Take coffee for example. Make a cup at home for $.75 or go to Starbucks for $6. 800% price increase and, yet, people choose SB everyday.

I find it interesting that a new or existing farm hasn't marketed "inexpensive" dahlias for the value minded customer. I wonder if that price point makes sense for a business anymore.

blown_dry

There were a number of good thoughtful comments on this so I don't know if there is further interest, but it's definitely something that affects everyone in the hobby. I had a seller who tried to manage traffic by not posting a opening time but giving a general time of day and then some customers were locked out because they either had a monitor watching the site or were refreshing constantly during that time period and it flagged security measures designed to prevent denial of service attacks and brute force hacking attempts.
It's just another indicator that there is no one perfect solution to dahlia mania. If there were magically enough tubers for everyone to shop casually, many people would find something else to be obsessed with in a few months or years and lose interest in "collecting" dahlias. Scarcity is an important factor in generating that level of fervor, I believe. But that magic probably won't happen, and even if it did, there would continue to be "limited new releases" that will be scarce by their nature.

Juliarugula

blown_dry some customers were locked out because they either had a monitor watching the site or were refreshing constantly during that time period and it flagged security measures designed to prevent denial of service attacks and brute force hacking attempts.

I had no idea that could happen! So we should be careful with the “refresh, refresh, refresh” button, huh? That’s a bummer.

DarcyD

blown_dry Well said! I totally agree with you. If people want to sell their new releases or popular tubers for the highest dollar they can get I say go for it while the market sustains this, or for as long as the market sustains it. In two years those new releases will be a lot harder for them to get top dollar for with the ease of multiplying dahlias. There are absolutely loads of wonderful older varieties out there if people don’t need/want the latest and greatest or are on a budget 😁. 💐

BarryO

Your time and concern devoted to this issue is evident and appreciated. No doubt tuber scarcity is at the root of the problem and there will always be those who will be disappointed when their tuber choices cannot be satisfied. However, I tend to side more with the customer and believe that sellers bear some responsibility for perpetuating the "frenzy". Tuber prices are set by the seller, and the range of prices for the very same variety can vary wildly among sellers. Some are simply outrageous. Yes, they can sell their inventory for whatever price they choose, but it can still be outrageous. The universe of tuber varieties is vast, but the current exhibition-quality tubers that win on the show bench consists of a much smaller subset and are often priced at multiples of the cut-flower offerings just for this reason. This is not meant to indict all sellers, without whom this wonderful hobby is dependent. But I've put in over 40 years growing tubers and there is some price gouging going on.

NCDahlia

100% agree. We are not going to all get the 2024 releases and thats ok. I know if I really like one or a particular hybridizer I want to own them. But I also know its its hard to get a given variety then its not worth the stress or aggravation.

End of the day the tuber has to produce a good amount from single planted, be easy to store, easy to grow or they vanish from circulation. In terms of selling for $40 I am fine with that too if its a fairly new release. We all know how much work goes into planting, keeping healthly stock, dividing (not my favorite dahlia task) as well as getting said tubers through winter storage, properly labeled, and shipped with a viable eye. So all that work should be built into the cost of tuber cost because its a ton of work.

I see it just from a buyer standpoint. I of corse have my go-to suppliers listed on dahlia addict. and others who I have tried which I refuse to spending money with again.

My wife who knows nothing about dahlias just says "flowers should make u happy, not sad" lol. And the day its no longer fun to grow, or shop for replacements is the day I'll stop growing.

blown_dry

Juliarugula I suspect they were using a web monitor and those can be set to check every few seconds. I have not had this issue with "normal" behavior. 😂

Juliarugula

I don’t know how to move this to the other topic page, but…

I’m in favor of raised prices for coveted varieties in general. I think it only makes good economic sense, and it’s certainly in keeping with the way most other “collector’s” plants are sold. (I’ve seen single eye divisions of hostas sell for hundreds). And to be clear, I’m a buyer, not a seller.

Another argument in favor would be that hybridizers are primarily compensated for their work during the first few years after the release of a new variety, since they still have some control over distribution. So it would seem increased prices on new releases would better support hybridizing efforts as well. (From my layman’s perspective at least - feel free to correct me if this is off-base)

blown_dry

Cosey I find it interesting that a new or existing farm hasn't marketed "inexpensive" dahlias for the value minded customer. I wonder if that price point makes sense for a business anymore.

I see bulk offerings all the time. And I mentioned the supplier that experimented with pricing some varieties at "low" prices and didn't get many takers. Interestingly, the bulk-import suppliers have abandoned their niche as the low-priced product and are selling the exact same product to the new dahlia customer at the prices they expect.

Juliarugula

blown_dry And I mentioned the supplier that experimented with pricing some varieties at "low" prices and didn't get many takers.

I seem to recall that there’s a known phenomenon where a too-low priced product won’t sell whereas the same product at a higher price point will. Oddly enough, I catch myself falling for this type of thinking sometimes when I’m antique shopping. I’ll see something that catches my eye, and then decide against it when I see how low it’s priced…. It’s weird. I can even be aware I’m doing it and it still happens.

Cosey

blown_dry

Bulk= wholesale? While there are customers on the farming side that look for those 80% of my customers buy less than three tubers. (I know I'm not an inexpensive option, but given the sales this year I'm not the most expensive either 😂). I was thinking on the value tubers the casual buyer is looking for.

Can anyone comment on what the in person dahlia society sales have been like across the country? What prices are they asking for? Has the demand gone up? Do they sell out? I routinely suggest finding those sales to people. That's how I got started. When I started my business I approached a local society and purchased their remaining stock after their sale.

blown_dry

Juliarugula The psychology of it all is fascinating. I've been doing dahlias long enough to see former 'it' dahlias that no one has an interest in anymore yet they haven't gotten any less pretty. I read an interesting article about Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer. As a brand its popularity was on a long decline. In the US they began marketing to young people as a brand to consume "ironically" and found new success as a cheap beer so uncool that it was cool. In China, they played off the blue ribbon branding and marketed as a US premium product, pricing it extravagantly with good success.

bloomhjelm

I wish there were a few more instruments readily available to sellers and buyers.

One would be a way for hobbyists to more effectively market and track their inventory to facilitate trading and 1.1 sales. I see a lot of this done through Facebook and Craigslist when those cause topics to get pushed down and lost. It would be great to have a well-adopted trading board centered around a personal inventory manager, the same as any trading card or wine or comic book collector has.

I wish online shopping platforms which small sellers use like Square and Shopify made it simple to set up randomized draws to select committed buyers. Some people will always go home empty-handed, but that would give people without web alerts and extensions a chance to purchase the rarities. I don't love auctions unless they are for non-profits. I think mystery sales are more frustrating and customer-limiting than effective. Subscriber and early access sales just cause me to receive 150 different email subscriptions. 🙂

Juliarugula

Cosey

Our dahlia society (Elkhart Dahlia Society in Indiana) has a great in person sale. Tubers are $5, plants (cuttings or potted tubers) are $8. There’s definitely an intense focus on the part of a few buyers, but it’s still friendly and there are plenty of tubers to go around. We certainly don’t sell out - I’m not sure what happens to the excess at the end! Last year, there were even leftovers of some pretty sought-after varieties.

Definitely my all time favorite dahlia shopping experience.

blown_dry

Cosey Bulk= wholesale?

I mean the 3 and 5 tuber lots of good tuber producers that are very affordable per tuber.

MIDahlias

Cosey
I'm on Michigan. Home to three societies under the Midwest Conference and ADS, as well as Dahlia Hill. All four sell tuber for $5 each. Cuttings are more. I only know the numbers for one society. People do line up before we open. We sold around 800 on three hours last year.

One of the other society's tends to have KA and Coseytown's cuttings for $15 (I think, I went in 2022) there were a lot of one variety and I picked one off the table. A man told me he was buying them all. I was told usually a couple of people get there early to buy all the high end cuttings. True or False? I don't know.

I love society sales.

BarryO

Juliarugula
Our dahlia society on Long Island NY charges $5 per tuber and 3 for $5 if the tubers are unidentified.