Off Topic - Seedling Experiment Gone Wrong

PegMc · 2023-02-08T00:27:14+00:00

I'd collected seed from: NTAC Eileen, Burlesca, FC Copper, FC Illusion, Mak's Marshall, Marionberry Milkshake, Milena Fleur, Mingus Leroy T, Mystique, Pean...

PegMc

I was so disappointed as I was really looking forward to playing the seedling game this year as a 'newbie' - and I've obviously not made it out of failed newbie status yet; sighs. I decided to follow https://www.dahlias.com/help-center/how-to-grow-dahlias/growing-dahlia-seeds/#:~:text=Sprinkle%20your%20dahlia%20seed%20over,7%20to%2010%20day%20period.,,, fwiw. This season when I give it a go for try again #2 effort, I'm definitely going to use the paper towel method instead.

I find it really interesting that these are sprouting. Lord only knows how deeply they were down in the soil, and I am misting those pots heavily from the top as a watering method until the roots establish further, instead of watering from the bottom ,,, so they are getting a good soaking. Still doing well. I haven't checked today to see if more are showing up, but I'm guessing they will.

Sharing as a tip for other newcomers to the game, I read further, elsewhere, that if mold shows up, one of the causes is that seeds were placed too tightly to one another. I'm sure that was one of my mistakes. Live-do-learn!

Bessie

PegMc it's hard to tell in your circumstance, but it's easier to kill seedlings by over watering, than allowing the soil top layer to dry out ever so slightly. Actually, bottom watering may be preferred. You said you're a newbie... So adding this ... If you're not familiar with "dampening off" of seedlings, that topic might be good to read up on.

PegMc

Bessie, I appreciate your sharing your knowledge. The reason why I shared that they were watered well from the top was to indicate I was surprised at the finding because they definitely had lots of water before I even discovered their existence... They are still doing well.

Teddahlia

Breeding dahlias can be divided into two categories:
(1) All things cultural, like growing plants, fertilizing, watering and growing seedlings. These are all gardening skills that can be imported from just being a gardener and some people have little gardening experience and others are near professional. I do not generally want to comment much on this half of dahlia breeding as I believe it has little to do with the actual task of breeding dahlias but inevitably I end up making suggestions. From the time you start a dahlia seed to the time you transplant the plant into the garden is 5 to 7 weeks. Plants started too early tend to do poorly in the garden. How you germinate your seeds is personal preference but a high percentage of serious breeders sprout seeds in paper towels.
(2)Breeding dahlias by controlling pollen and identifying traits and breeding for specific goals. Many breeders are just casual breeders that just save seeds while the more advanced breeders control the pollen and select parents and have long and short term goals some of which may take 5- 10 years. I like talking about this category more than the cultural side.

Bessie

Teddahlia Ted, you can make any suggestions and I will listen! I am a "groupie" of yours from your Cubits.org posts. As dahlias are a relatively new interest of mine in the past few 2 years, I've read and re-read probably every post you made on anything related to hybridizing dahlias. I've been growing all kinds of seeds sinced I was 15 years old, and hybridization and saving dahlia seeds (from fully double dahlias) provide challenges that intrigue me. When I got my ornamental horticulture degree from Cal Polly SLO in the mid 70's, one of the electives I took was genetics. That background helps me understand and really appreciate the conversations you've provided on octoploid genetics in dahlias, anthocyanins and flavonoids, and the most effective strategies for getting good results during dahlia hybridization. Thank you for all your contributions and sharing the vast knowledge you possess.

Bessie

Darce I wanted Coseytown seeds too 😢, but wasn't paying close enough attention to the opening date. I had my eye on the dahlia varieties that are reported to make seed. I've grown lots of open center dahlias seeds, from seed packets and my own saved seeds. I've vowed next year to strictly follow the advice of Teddahlia . No open center dahlias within bee pollinating range of the fully double dahlias, since I'm aiming for fully double dahlia seed.

Darce

Now you won’t get the early start that professionals need from this method but if you don’t mind your seedlings blooming a bit later - I suggest winter sowing - at least as a back up plan. It takes all the worries about damping off and hardening out of the equation. I am starting a tray inside this year later on per Ted’s advice but the rest I will winter sow in the next few days and put them outside in their little milk jug green houses. It’s a great thing to do in the winter doldrums!

Bessie

Darce that's an interesting idea about planting outside, thank you. I love experimenting! I'm lucky enough to have some grow lights that allow me to give tender loving care to those relatively few seedlings I start in January or February that first sprout on paper towels. Once they are about 3" tall they will move into their growing containers and be outside under row cover fabric, which will provide warmth and lower the insect pressure. Last year the open center "saved seed" dahlias I grew responded really well with that method and were blooming(in their containers) by June and July. Call me crazy, but I'm already dreaming of saving and starting seed as early as July. Zone 9b is wonderful to grow in, but living in California it's a struggle to manage the water shortage.

Darce

Bessie

The other advantage a milk jug sowing experiment might demonstrate is with the watering dilemma. The closed jugs help with water evaporation and you can place the jugs in a shallow tray and water from the bottom- thereby conserving water. California is so different from my zone 6 NY I can’t say for sure but I think it could work !
What’s your favorite seeds to save? I think mine might be my grey and burgundy Shirley poppies

Darce

Wow blooming dahlias by June sounds amazing! I love saving seed too- in the fall you can’t move in my house without bumping into a paper plate of seeds drying. Your system sounds perfect buuut if you did want to try a little experiment- here is a link to winter sowing if you weren’t familiar (tho you probably are!)

https://www.agardenforthehouse.com/winter-sowing-101-6/

It is a super helpful method - particularly for harder to grow perennials-and it’s very cheering for me when it’s gray and chilly outside to make these little seed green houses and set them outside for spring to come awaken them.

Bessie

Darce I planted some Lauren's Grape poppy seed a week ago. I bet you have have some beautiful colors, selected over the years. Pictures? I've been saving Alstroemeria seeds for several years, and have had great success germinating them. It's so much fun to see a flower that no one in the world has. Right now I've got several baggies of seeds getting their 3-4 week moist warm treatment, that will be followed by 3 weeks refrigerator treatment(in the butter compartment), then they are back to room temperature. As the seeds sprout they will have their own 4" pot. A few years ago it was exciting to germinate succulent seeds I'd collected from various areas in California, as well as seed from my own blooming succulents. The variety of forms and colors was so fascinating. I've collected spores and grown birds nest fern. So, if a plant sets seed, I've likely collected it. I love to try new varieties of flowers and vegetables, however when I purchase seeds, I lean toward hybrids that have superior disease resistance. I do not like the hassle of plant diseases! I almost forgot, I got inspired to grow some rose seeds a few weeks ago. Those seeds are currently outside shooting for the "alternating temps of 50 to 86 degrees", per instructions found in my ancient(1975) "Plant Propagation principles and practices" textbook. Can you tell I get excited about growing seeds?

Darce

Bessie

I am nervous that I am posting these in the wrong place but here are my two favorite seed saved poppies. I planted papaver rhoes amazing gray and pandora right by each other and sometimes I get flowers that look like a combo of the 2

Darce

Bessie
Your seed successes are fantastic - ferns and succulents ARE very intimidating to me!
I grew roses from saved seed last year and am sowing some OP david Austin rose seed right now in my winter sowing milk jugs. My little last year rose seedlings never bloomed and it got down to -6 a couple of nights ago so fingers crossed they made it.

Teddahlia

Many dahlia breeders grow petunias from seeds and we have been growing a variety bred by Steve Meggos for about 5 years now. Margaret has bred numerous petunia seedlings too and some have been very nice but no home runs.

Darce

Teddahlia
The pictures you post of your hanging basket petunias are always so envy making! Are those hanging baskets some of your seed saved petunias?

calico20hill

Teddahlia I grew petunias from purchased seeds last year for the first time and they were wonderful. I did not try collecting seeds from them but did take some cuttings before the first hard freeze up and am watching them carry on in my greenhouse. Collecting seeds would be a fun thing to try with them this year. It is so hard choosing among the ones offered I want to grow them all! (I have a problem with this with every thing I successfully grow!)

Bessie

Darce nice poppies! As to the "right" forum, it's a tricky question I'm unqualified to answer, but happy to see the photos. ☺️ But your question reminds me that sometimes it's a fine line that separates a seedling experiment gone wrong, with a seedling surprise that's "gone right". Note the first post in this thread, describing Dahlia seedlings that "survived". I once in my teens threw out soil, into the garden, that had violet seeds that never germinated("gone wrong"). Was I ever surprised a few months later to see tiny violet seedlings in the area I dumped the soil! Later I found out violet seeds needed cold stratification in order to germinate. Bringing this back to Dahlias, when I see "apparently good" Dahlia seeds not germinate I always question and research what I might be missing.

Darce

And then I have a strain of what I like to call watercolour
watermelon poppies that self seed now without my help

Bessie

Darce Sounds like you're selecting for cold hardiness 😁! How long did it take for the Rose seeds to germinate?

Darce

Bessie
Oh I have done the ol dump the never grew seed tray into the compost heap / a year later why are there lilies/etc growing out of of the compost heap many times!
Speaking of seeding adventures and dahlias tho - I noticed this year lots of growers were offering seeds. I missed my chance at coseytown’s seed sale but I got some seed packets from rivers,a collerette mix from Lobaugh’s, floret, and a bloomquist mix of seeds. I have my saved seeds from my dahlias too so I am excited to see what pops up from all this genetic diversity! Especially from these amazing hybridisers. It will of course be mostly singles but I love bees and the bees love those the best.

Darce

Bessie

I winter sowed cause that’s my jam! Put them out in January and in may they were starting to emerge. I pricked them out into a plug tray probably in June and they were chunky little plantlets by autumn. I made a amateurish mini hoop house out of a bent cattle panel and some row covering fleece so we will see if they made it thru the winter

Darce

I am particularly excited about the rivers and Lobaugh’s dahlia seeds but I am really wanting to get Coseytown seeds next year