Hybridizing Dahlias

Bessie · 2023-09-14T03:43:02+00:00

Krista to discover if seeds are growing in the seed pod, after there are no remaining anthers on the pod, gently squeeze the pods between your thumb and fing...

Juliarugula

I have a question regarding the Seedling to Seed Parent chart at the bottom of the Birch Bay hybridizing page here:

http://birchbaydahlias.com/advanced-d.htm

Some of the seedlings/seed parents are backwards, right? For example, in the first blue highlighted section, Eileen C is obviously not a seedling of Sandia Bill J, Sandia Summertime, Sandia Brocade, Sandia Garnet, and Sandia Pouffe. There are other instances in the chart where the two are also obviously backwards.

Are they all backwards? (Seems like the Fancy Pants section at least is correct). Is there a pattern to which sections are backwards, or is it just random? Trying to figure it out and it seems random, but I’m guessing that I don’t know enough to put together a pattern if there is one. Maybe just the Boleys’ intros are backwards for some reason?

Juliarugula

Juliarugula Maybe just the Boley’s intros are backwards for some reason?

Never mind that theory, because some SB’s are in the Fancy Pants section…

Bessie

Juliarugula I've also noticed the apparent discrepancies in the column designations for seed parent and seedlings.

Here's what I do: if a section has multiple listings of the same name, that has to be a seed parent section( e.g. Eillene C., Kenora Majestic, Pkg John S, Fancy Pants, Hallmark). Another strategy is to use the time period the Dahlia was released... Seed parent is likely the Dahlia released years earlier, e g. Hollyhill Black Beauty is the seed parent of Sandia Nocturne.

Even with the discrepancies, I find the information highly valuable! This morning I was finishing off planting my waterlily section and planted a Hollyhill Black Beauty in the waterlily section. That was based on the Boley's information, and @Teddahlia mentioning HH Black Beauty makes seeds.

Teddahlia

Having records is the important thing. You can plan your results on past experience. We have 4-5 introduced varieties where we lost track of the parents(s) . It sounds so easy to record such things but tags disappear, human error occurs. Whether to keep the seedling that has unknown parentage is a negative factor but if it is really nice, it gets introduced. However, with only one or two exceptions we do not use them for breeding. But one of our better seed parents is from an unknown. I have said: "If it was born in our garden, there is only good pollen around. " However it is a huge advantage knowing the parent(s) of a seedling. Yes, the pollen parent is usually unknown but we do try to grow flowers near good pollinators. Hand crossing where both parents are known is very, very good. Hand crossing where two generations of parents are known is killer. Three generations of such data is seldom ever achieved here but has happened. Having said that, because dahlias are octoploid, even three generations does not give you consistency and your good one ones probably increases from about 15% to 20-25% and that may well be an exaggeration.

Next year's release is the replacement for HH Sophia that refuses to make tubers despite being a 6 foot vigorous plant. Named after the daughter of a club member, this will be called HH Sophia Two. I must say it has better form, grows almost as tall, has only slightly less bright color and most important is a good tuber maker. I had to bribe Margaret to get her to name this one Sophia Two as she was going to use one of her special names(so good she does not use them but once per century). The only hitch to selling it is that Margaret may want to enter it in the trial gardens and that would add another year to it's release.

Juliarugula

Teddahlia it’s beautiful! I love bright orange!

Teddahlia

Note Sophia Two is orange on both the front and reverse of the florets. Many of us are breeding to get a different color on the reverse but when you want a solid looking one color flower, the same color may be best.

Teddahlia

Black Beauty makes "almost" waterlilies when crossed with waterlily. The Boleys have an unreleased seedling they use for breeding and it would make a waterlily out of a bowling ball. Sort of a "secret weapon". Normally it would take two generations to get a halfway decent waterlily.

Teddahlia

I planted three rows of second year tubers and the first row has 100 tubers or so. 97 of them have sprouted above the ground. That is about as good as it gets for second year tubers. The second row is missing 10 and that is more normal. The third row was planted a bit later. Some of the 10 may sprout but overall this is one of the best years for tubers sprouting.

Teddahlia

Planted three nice Alfred C. rooted cuttings with the hope Margaret will hand cross them, It is the seed parent of lots of the AC giant dahlias.

Bessie

Teddahlia I was really surprised to see this big Dahlia amongst my seedlings. The slightly pink colored photo( bloom is 6" diameter ) was when it was first cut with a 26" stem, the other two white bloom photos are the same bloom from now (bloom 8" wide x 4" deep, now it's 3.5 days old). The seed parent is your cursed, hated Dahlia☺, pollen parent is unknown, but I'd guess Mikayla Miranda. Playing in my head is your words of wisdom... First bloom of a first year seedling... Only time will tell.

Strong straight stem, no bobble head.

bloomhjelm

I got my ADS color cards. This is my favorite page. I would like to see a WH-9 greige dahlia.

Bessie

bloomhjelm you inspired me to photo two of my recently blooming seedlings with the ADS WHITE color reference.

24312 - 4" flower, records show Bahama Mama is the seed parent
24501 - 3" flower, records show Hollyhill Pinkie us the seed parent
3.5" flower is Blizzard

Teddahlia

The larger the dahlia , the less important the form. Having said that, there is a huge difference in size between a small "A" (Large)sized flower and really large "Giant" that really needs to be about 12" in diameter to do much show winning.
Giant flowers are hard to breed and the most successful recent giant breeder is Ken Greenway of AC Dahlias. We are trying a couple of his giants this year. We have no giants in our seedlings but do have some OK Large flowers.

Planted 55% of our first year seedlings today. They rest will go in in a few days.

Bessie

24106 - 4" flower, Cafe au Lait seed parent. My guess as to pollen parent is Hollyhill Buttermilk. The color of this flower is very soft and subtle.

Teddahlia

It sort of looks like HH Wedding Day. The form of our Wedding Day is a bit wonky but the plants grow like giant trees with flowers that have long stiff stems in a pleasing color of white.

Teddahlia

Bessie commented that she obtained a new dahlia bred by Wayne Holland of Canada. Wayne in a previous life was a professional plant breeder and for many years bred dahlias in semi-retirement. He moved from the area near Ferncliff, near Vancouver BC. to "Okanogan" country to the East. He was rumored to be breeding grapes.

Wayne hand crosses his dahlias and was one of the first to explain how to do it on his "website" (never a fully functional site but a collection of articles and pictures). We followed his instructions carefully and still do pollinating the same way. Wayne was also interested in the genetics of color in dahlias and explained how it works in his articles. His explanations were "old school" meaning they were not based on the chemical basis of color but rather on how to breed for color.

If you use one of his flowers for breeding, you know it has some good genes.

BackyardBouquets_17

Teddahlia are his articles still available to read? If so where would I find them?

I’ll admit once you start talking chemical ect I’m in above my head and find it hard to grasp what’s being said. I think I would find his articles particularly interesting.

Bessie

BackyardBouquets_17 I found an online article written in 2022 about Wayne Holland. https://www.legacy.nwdahlia.org/person/holland-wayne/

blown_dry

BackyardBouquets_17 I was able to find a page with a link to Wayne's site. The site itself was gone, but having the link allowed me to find it on the Wayback Machine. It was up as late as 2017, but was last updated in 2006.
https://web.archive.org/web/20090220182028/http://www.members.shaw.ca/hydahlia/
This is great info, Ted. Thank you!

Teddahlia

I last saw them over 10 years ago.

BackyardBouquets_17

blown_dry
Thank you for this. I had looked a little but hadn’t been able to find it so this will be interesting to read!

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