Hybridizing Dahlias

Bessie · 2023-09-14T03:43:02+00:00

Krista to discover if seeds are growing in the seed pod, after there are no remaining anthers on the pod, gently squeeze the pods between your thumb and fing...

Teddahlia

Does a person ever use the same pollen as the seed parent? No
Long answer: The plants have some built in safe guards so they do not self pollinate. Yes, they still can but at a much lower success rate.
Hand pollinating done properly is not for the weak of heart. It is very time consuming and results extremely variable(no seeds, very few seeds even when successful) . Letting bees pollinate from properly spaced plants is many times easier. Isolation bed: maybe 10 varieties that would do well if crossed and 3 or 4 are known seed producers and plant away from others (even 10 feet would work).

BackyardBouquets_17

Thank you! My plan was one row aprox 20 ft from the rest of my dahlias and in that row 10 to fifteen foot section of decoratives then plant something like celosia next and then another 10-15 foot section of Balls MB and Pom ( pretty sure there is only a 5 ft separation then tho so I might have to re figure and rearrange a bit) I’ve got more rows I can play with if I have to.
Then try a few specific ones with hand pollination. I’ve got children that need me to so I know relying solely on hand pollination isn’t feasible for me at this time but a few here and there of the special ones will b fun to try.

Teddahlia

Remember the bees may pollinate a flower over 100 times a day and you probably just once.

BackyardBouquets_17

Yes you can’t beat the efficiency of bees! We keep serveral hives of honeybees on our property so there are always lots around here.

Fun fact: A single honeybee pollinates about 5,000 flowers per day. And if every worker bee in a colony is pollinating, they're visiting 250–300 million flowers in a day.
One worker will visit 50–350 flowers before depositing the pollen in a wax honeycomb back at the hive. Then, the worker embarks again. It makes 50 such trips per day.

Teddahlia

Swan Island used keep bees on the premises. Nick Gitts Sr used to be the breeder for them and grew 20,000- seedlings. The bees were able to do the work of spreading the pollen. I do not believe they have the bees there now as they have many thousands of visitors and the bees are a liability risk.

Justafewdahlias

I was reading a book on dahlias from the 1920’s (for fun, historical perspective not as a serious resource of information) This book said:

“Seeds from flowers pollinated late in the season are the more satisfactory. They germinate better.
The resulting plants are of finer constitution and bear flowers of better colour and
habit. The latter part of August is early enough to begin. Plants are then in their full strength and vigour and can put their best efforts into the development of the seed during September. Do not grow too many seed pods on one plant if you want flowers also. One or two is plenty. “

My (inexperienced) thought process is “well if I get some seeds earlier in the season then at least I have something in case there is unexpected weather or I don’t get the opportunity to collect them, etc)

So wondering if timing in the season is a factor to consider for collecting seeds and seed outcomes. My season (Pnw) is July-October. I am talking about letting one bloom on a plant go to seed earlier vs waiting till the end of the season, not the whole plant going to seed early in the season.

Teddahlia

Seed harvesting is time consuming and if the seeds do not germinate well or just are not in the pods because it is too early in the season, it makes sense to do it later in the season. Margaret tried hand crossing too early one year and her results were dismal. Later crosses that year had seeds. I bet it has something to do with temperature and not high temps but high low temps at night.

Bessie

Teddahlia I noticed that the organza bags raise the temperature of the flowers/buds/seed heads. With your comment about night time temperature too low for successful seed, I might double bag the seed heads. I live so close to the coast that we get fog, and almost never get any nighttime temps above 60, unless we're in a heat wave.

Justafewdahlias

Teddahlia thank you for answering this. Gardening often feels like one big lesson in practicing patience 😅

Teddahlia

"With your comment about night time temperature too low for successful seed," Temps too high at night for good seeds was my comment. . Goldilocks wants it just right, not too hot not too cold.

Teddahlia

I am still taking cuttings of Margaret's 2023 waterlily seedlings. I have taken more cuttings this year than in any other year. She kept over for further evaluation one heck of a lot of waterlily seedlings. I do not look forward to sorting the cuttings as they do not get taken in alphabetical order.

Margaret likes this one and even shared it with an old friend. I am still taking cuttings of it.

drewtheflorist

Teddahlia Wouldn't it be great if tubers sprouted alphabetically .....

Teddahlia

Naming the seedlings has ways been a slow process. Two people must agree. The UK breeder Ken Stock named his first year seedlings even before he dug them. Most of his did not have a prefix but "Mayan" and "Monet" were used for some. His wife was ill and died of dementia during the last several years when he grew seedlings, He grew only from hand crossed seeds, He was probably the only breeder that grew only from hand crosses. He was a master grower of flower beds and his small home even had the nickname "Little Wisley" after the botanical gardens . It too was a tourist site.

Teddahlia

"I have deferred sorting disease" and typically think that the sorting will not take very long. And of course there are way too many categories: Plant the second year varieties together. Plant the first year seedling by the form of the parent. Plant the giant dahlias in alphabetical order. Plant the ones Margaret wants to hand pollinate close to her work table. The list goes on and on. I spent an hour with the rooted cuttings last night and sorted 15% of them into the general categories but they need to be sorted within those categories another time. If you grow a 100 dahlias, planning and sorting is fun. When you plant thousands of dahlias the fun gets to be a bit overwhelming.

Bessie

Teddahlia I can identify with the overwhelming part. Most days I think I'm crazy. Other days I'm exhilarated by the thought of creating new Dahlias. I strive to have everything I plant to be under drip irrigation, so when I go on vacation this summer I don't think about the Dahlias dying ever day I'm away.

MissyWeitzel

Teddahlia I very much feel that pain. I've decided upon an order of forms and them I'm doing alphabetical within form. The major difference from last season is cuttings will go separately in that same order because last season I tried to plot out the spaces for cuttings to come later and that was extra tedious and annoying. I already know I'm going to be irritated with having some cultivars in both areas instead of all together, but I decided that getting a jump on planting was more important. I'm going to start with tubers only this week. Cuttings will be the end of May or early June. Last season I lost some to a late frost despite covering them.

Once I decide upon planting order I make a numbered list and then mark everything by number to hopefully speed up sorting a bit.

Teddahlia

Margaret caught me trying to sort the dahlia
cuttings in "her" work space. Suffice to say I had to quit and help her put tiny seedlings into pots instead.

bloomhjelm

Teddahlia Happy wife, happy life. As I remind my husband (as he fills more raised beds for me in the moments of sunshine today.)

NCDahlia

Teddahlia Is this a seedling? I really like the color combo on that one. Also random question what's the height of hollyhill carefree I got a tuber of it this year and put in the back row I assume the usual 6 feet or more?

Teddahlia

The cuttings are the worst sorting job. Second year tubers are not sorted and are planted in rows with instructions from Margaret that tubers of the same color cannot be planted next to each other. That goes pretty fast except that I have to make a plant tag for each tuber. Margaret may have me pull out the waterlilies from the second year tubers and plant them separately. Cuttings of seedlings are not planted in the same rows as those grown from tubers. They need lots of sorting to get ready to plant.

We are about 60% done transplanting sprouted seeds into 2.5 inch pots. We insist that every plant have a plant tag and if we do not know the parent(s) , we almost always cull the seedling. As with most people, we have broken that rule in the past and have kept some good ones from unknown parents. It is not good if you want to use that plant for breeding but one seedling from unknown parents makes really nice seedlings. and is a beautiful flower.

We are trying to cut back as we are getting older but Margaret planted lots of her waterlily seeds and they sprouted well and we will have about the same number of seedlings as in the past.

Teddahlia

Common mistakes made by beginner dahlia breeders:
(1) Growing seeds collected by someone else. They are the breeder and you are just growing their seedlings for them. You need to grow your own seeds, even from the very beginning. Who chose those seeds and do they have the same goals as you? Most likely, any seeds others sell are from the less worthy flowers that make lots of seeds.
(2) Not having any goals and saying things like: “I will just collect some random seeds and see what happens.” Collecting seeds and growing them to be plants is too much work not to do some planning. Do you drive your car with no destination in mind? Do you cook your food with no recipe?
(3) Assuming that varieties you like will make seeds. Many or most do not. Get some guidance on this. Make sure you have some good seed makers or you will be disappointed.
(4) Not labeling the seeds you collect. A breeder needs to know what seedling parent makes nice seedlings so that you can do it again. You will be embarrassed if you a get a nice seedling and are asked: “ What is the parent of that one?” “Shit if I know?”, is not the right answer.
(5) Trying to evaluate your seedlings without input from others. Experienced breeders get opinions from others. You can keep anything you like but if you cull a really good one because you just did not like it, the flower is gone forever. Many funny dahlia stories are about big time breeders who gave away what they thought was an inferior seedling and the recipient went on to introduce it with great success.
We will never breed a flower as pretty as this one. At least that is what I think when find my old picture of Pink Giraffe. The late Bob Miller who lived on the Orgon coast grew this one. I believe he was the one who was married to a woman who was a victim of the diabetes medication that killed lots of people back when. He was a top notch exhibitor and I remember his nearly perfect Elma Elizabeth that won best in show in Portland.

« Previous Page Next Page »