Hybridizing Dahlias

Bessie · 2023-09-14T03:43:02+00:00

Krista to discover if seeds are growing in the seed pod, after there are no remaining anthers on the pod, gently squeeze the pods between your thumb and fing...

Teddahlia

This 2020 seedling is being kept for another year. No name yet.

Krista

Teddahlia Ohh lovely. Is this one related to Hollyhill Honeygold?

Krista

Wow cool! I see you note in Flickr that HH Honeygold stands 5 feet tall. Are dahlia plants more inclined to be shorter vs taller in height? My Sandia WLs were mostly shorter than my HH WLs last year except Sandia Cancan — she was neck & neck with HH Leticia (my tallest HH WL in 2023). I’d love to see a side-by-side of HH Honeygold and > Teddahlia “This 2020 seedling” one day!

Teddahlia

Honeygold is 50% Boley breeding and 50% bee selected Hollyhill breeding. The flower above is 100% Hollyhll breeding. Eventually, the good genetic parts of the Boley flowers will be incorporated into our flowers and that is what breeders do is to bring in some genes we do not have. To be honest, nothing comes for free and there are traits we do not want from the outside lines that come along with the good genes. We use an outside line for a couple of years and then spend several years getting rid of what we do not want. I am speaking mostly of growth characteristics here and you all know we like tall dahlias for example. Waterlilies as a group 10 years ago were deficient in height and vigor . Pam Howden for example has glorious flowers but is subject to virus disease and grows like it was a grape vine instead of a dahlia. Lots of crappy genes in there and we will never use it again for breeding.
One of the best seedlings from 2023.

Krista

Teddahlia Oh how beautiful those spiraling, cupping petals are! My brain is going wild trying to decide what color it must be.

Teddahlia

Of course I saved the picture in black and white to conceal it's color. I will only say it is not dark red or purple. Since this is a picture of first year seedling, we do not like sharing them until the second year when it has been verified it actually is still alive and has not changed. I have lots of first year pictures of flowers that have no second year pictures.

Teddahlia

Lost and found: while pulling tubers to sprout for cuttings, this favorite of Margaret was in the very last box. Have placed three tubers in pots to sprout. It will be an excellent cut flower and should do well in shows too.

Justafewdahlias

Hello! I am curious if anyone has any sources for finding seeds of specific dahlias or specific forms of dahlias for sale? The dahlia seeds online are typically “bees choice” and “lots of open center blooms” which I have never sought out to grow. I really love poms, ball, and formal decorative dahlias. In the future I will try to save seeds of my dahlias. I never have saved any seeds before since I only found out about growing dahlias from seeds recently. I think growing some “surprise” flowers will be so much fun!

I don’t have any open center dahlias in my garden so should future seeds collected from my flowers be most likely free of open centered blooms?

Thanks!

Justafewdahlias

I don’t have any open center dahlias in my garden so should future seeds collected from my flowers be most likely free of open centered blooms?

Thanks!

Edit: found some finally ! No clue where these seeds were when I was searching for them a couple months ago. https://southernseeds.com/products/dahlia-dahlia-variablilis-25-seeds

SteveM

2023 seedling - not a show or cut variety but has potential as a garden variety. Short, stocky plants bear 5" blooms on short stems, above leaf canopy.

Bessie

SteveM 🎉 I've been waiting patiently to see some of your creations.😃
If you recommend it, then it must be good.

Justafewdahlias

SteveM I am a big fan of the “short” garden dahlias. I ordered some for my front yard this year that hopefully won’t require staking. I was just thinking “I wonder if hybridizes ever aim to make shorter plants?” It feels like there are a lot less options out there when you’re searching for shorter varieties.

Teddahlia

"I don’t have any open center dahlias in my garden so should future seeds collected from my flowers be most likely free of open centered blooms? "My observation has been about 30% of seedlings from fully double dahlias have open centers.

Justafewdahlias

Teddahlia thank you for this insight! I always assumed it was just the open center dahlia’s pollen causing this. This helps me realize it’s the plant’s past genetic background also. I can’t blame it all on the pollen

Teddahlia

I am a bit pessimistic when I discuss this issue: As breeders, we breed seeds for our own use and never sell seeds. Dahlias have on average terrible seedlings even when grown from the very best seeds. Good seeds produce about 10% seedlings that are tolerably good; 1% are actually good. That means you need to plant 1,000- seedlings to get 10 that are "good" . And that was from the best seeds and no way will anybody ever sell you their "best" seeds. I would say the odds of getting a really nice dahlia from the seeds typically sold is about 1 in a thousand. If you carefully pick out 4-5 seed making varieties that have similar form and grow them apart from your other dahlias and keep the seeds, I bet you could get 2 nice seedling out of 1,000-. Dahlias grown from tubers of named varieties have nearly a 100% success rate.

Justafewdahlias

Teddahlia

This completely makes sense when seeing this from the point of view as someone who grows or breeds dahlias. My expectations are not super high for what my store bought seeds will turn into. I’m guessing the seeds collected and sold are from plants or growers not at all involved in any dahlia breeding. It’s the surprise factor that is fun for me (and my 3 year old). Kinda like playing the gardening lotto, one in a million chance but at least with growing dahlia seeds I get some (terrible) flowers in the end! I am not at all a serious dahlia grower😅. However, this year I have been learning more about growing dahlias. A lot of new information gained for me to try to put to use this season!

Can we see photos of your terrible seedlings? Now I am curious what a terrible one is like 😂Terrible in appearance? Or terrible in growth, vigor, some other factor?

SteveM

Bessie Thanks, I only grew 60 seedlings last year and ended up saving 5 as potential cut varieties and one as a potential garden variety.

How many seedlings did you end up with this year? You also have some second year grow outs? I'm looking forward to seeing your2024 seedlings. Did you plant them out yet?

Bessie

SteveM
Seedlings this year: No final count, but numbers here are approximate. 28 Cafe au Lait seedlings, 30 Hollyhill Daydream seedlings, 13 Bahama Mama seedlings, 50 Miscellaneous parents seedlings, 13 Ferncliff Copper seedlings, 50 seedlings from 23029 seedling.
So approximately 180 seedlings for 2024.
Seedlings are all on my patio, weathering the multiple rain storm systems that have come through. Today they got two foliar applications of Miracle Grow, fortified with Epsom salts for Magnesium. I need to treat for fungus gnats ASAP. It's been 2 weeks since the last treatment.
Planting: Been busy cleaning up the yard, but I think next week has potential for planting 2024 seedlings out. I think I have a plan for planting them, but I keep changing my mind. To plant them in the ground in their current pots, or brave the gophers and plant directly in the ground. Then, there's always the plastic baskets I used last year. The one Dahlia the gopher ate through the plastic to get at the tubers(seedling 23043), has sprouted nicely, from a small tuber attached to the partially eaten bigger tuber.
About half of the 2024 seedlings are very robust and are nice plants. The other half are smaller plants that have grown very slowly. I suspect the smaller seedlings will be shorter growing plants.

blown_dry

Justafewdahlias Probably many enthusiasts grow in larger areas where a short dahlia would get lost, and one of the largest groups of dahlia growers are cut flower farmers who need long stems. If you search for "bedding dahlia" online you may find many candidates.

SteveM

Justafewdahlias “I wonder if hybridizes ever aim to make shorter plants?” It feels like there are a lot less options out there when you’re searching for shorter varieties.

Most of the breeding for short dahlias has been done by large commercial growers and are often patented. Many of these "bedding' types can be found at the "big box" stores. Verwer has developed the "Melody" line for this purpose. There is demand for short dahlias in landscaping and maybe this will be the next fad. There are a few breeders who are recognizing this niche and starting to save seedlings that have "garden dahlia" potential.

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