Soil Types & Amendment Types

PegMc

Questions & Observations:
REF. Soluble Mycorrhizae -- I'd purchased a 4lb. bag just before planting season last year & had actually forgotten that I had it. I just rediscovered it in my stash but then noticed it has an expiration date on is of 02/2022. I would have purchased this late March/early April of '22, so there's that. Thoughts- should I toss it or use it? Have you used it for Dahlia plantings?

REF: Mint Compost
I'm taking a break from planting rose bushes (only 9 more to go...) and had purchase 4-26Qt. boxes of Heirloom Roses "Natural Mint Compost" -- man, does it ever seem nice! I plan to take a bag of it to a local farmer w/ 40K or more acres in production of various crops, hoping to convince him to grow it (it's a long shot, but you never know!) From what I could guess from a quick Inet search, it seems it is, thus far, only grown on the west coast, so I think it would probably be a smart move for him ,,, and I could be his 'trial garden', lol. Have you used Mint Compost in Dahlia planting and what are your opinions & experience on/with it?

REF: Soil Type -- CLAY -- and not the type of clay I've ever experienced. The base (I have raised beds of '50/50" soil) is clay. It's not the Louisiana Gumbo type I had in the Houston area, nor the type I experienced in Upstate NY. It's mustard yellow with maybe a slight tint of orange and it is SLIMY. I'm using a Hori Hori to make my holes as I have to sit cross-legged to dig thanks to a back issue which makes using a shovel quite awkward. This clay type has so much "cling" to it that each stabbed dig with the Hori Hori, I have to slide the clay off the tool - it's that slimy and it's quite light, aka, a nudge at the top edge and it slides right off. It doesn't crumble, it stays in those slivers that I'm sliding off the tool Obviously, it's holding tons of moisture. Last year when I planted my rows for Dahlias, I really didn't run into the clay because the rows were high enough. But when I went to dig the tuber clumps up at the end of the season, I discovered that many seemed to have sought the clay level - growing deeper instead of outward. I had MANY foot long tubers. It just seemed odd to me. Also to note, that while I wasn't up to my normal snuff all last growing season (thanks, "Long Covid" that kept me bedridden for the most part), I did manage a regular watering schedule, so I can't really factor in lack of moisture as being an issue. I'm contemplating whether or not I should bring more soil in to make those rows even higher? My limited understanding is that clay really doesn't have many if any nutrients - true? But why did these tubers seem to sink and grow so deep, when there was plenty of nutrition surrounding the plantings? This almost seems like a silly question, but the unasked question...

Thanks, all!

Cosey

PegMc Soluble Mycorrhizae

No sense wasting it. It does have an expiration date but if I have any left over from the previous season I dust my tubers with it before planting. Won't hurt them and I'm not trashing it.

Teddahlia

Have you used Mint Compost in Dahlia planting and what are your opinions & experience on/with it? Mint compost here where we have acid soil is one of the best. The mint is alkaline and actually helps with the pH and it not only is compost but is also balanced fertilizer much like alfalfa. However 99% of us have no way to get it. I used it once but my delivery was not well composted and it steamed and smelled bad. The neighbor complained and I had to buy a tarp to cover the pile. I used it on the flower garden and it was excellent.
Heavy clay can be helped by gypsum granules. They sell it at our feed store. It sort of melts a tunnel thrugh the clay and breaks it up. Not a cure but it helps and if your soil needs sulfur it is one of the best sources of sulfur and is pH neutral. .

PegMc

Teddahlia Good to know. Thanks, Ted!

calico20hill

So Peg, we could do with a clay conference! It sounds like we are having similar issues with clay. And this is why my dahlias are in raised beds of purchased nice organic garden soil. When I had my soil test done on the local dirt I was interested that our clay is very acid, very heavy in Iron, and totally lacking in the aluminum that would turn my mop head hydrangeas blue. I could not figure out why with acid soil they were blooming pink! If I could get a truck load of mint compost I would love to use it, but like Ted, buying it by the small bag is not going to work. I buy a lot of roses from Heirloom but I am NOT ppaying premium prices for small bags of of something grown so close to us. I don't know how similar alfalfa is to it in chemical composition but that is what I use on my roses.

calico20hill

NCDahlia

Only way to fix the clay problem is bring in compost + topsoil mix. But you don't have to do it all at once either. A 50/50 mix of good soil with the NC clay still can grow dahlias just fine. However you may lose a few tubers with spring rains so if there is one u must keep, pot it up, take a cutting then plant out the potted dahlia it will catch up to the others.

I think there is an old saying of $50 hole for a $10 plant. Good soil makes it a lot easier to grow them and since we are not the PNW its much harder to grow with clay + 90% humidity summers 😂

You can also put down Pelletized Gypsum each fall or spring it will help break up the clay. I put down a bag every few years. 40 pound bag at home depot is $16 I got some last week.

Here is a pretty good article on soil from the local AG School. And you can also mail in soil samples for free to NC State they test all of it for free.
https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/extension-gardener-handbook/1-soils-and-plant-nutrients

KitCMC

I have clay. From what I’ve read, clay is usually rich in many nutrients (they get trapped between the tightly packed clay particles), but plants are unable to access them. I have recently started incorporating expanded shale into beds as I develop/amend them, and to holes I dig for planting. A lot of research comes from Texas where there is Black Gumbo soil that has 2:1 clay: minerals which expand and swell. The clay in my area, upper Midwest, is 1:1 non-shrinking/non-swelling. I live near a large university and inquired at the soil sciences department if I could inadvertently be doing harm using expanded shale in the local soil. The resounding answer was that it would do no harm, but that I should also add compost/biochar/organic matter as well. I also use gypsum every time I plant and find it very helpful, but it doesn’t make permanent improvement. While digging is backbreaking (hours for just a few bare root roses, or one small tree - I feel you), it’s nice not to have plants constantly running dry during July/August. I am in zone 5 and wouldn’t dream of wintering over tubers, but have only had a handful of tubers rot growing right in the ground. Here are some links to expanded shale information if you’re interested.

https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/newsletters/hortupdate/hortupdate_archives/2003/nov03/Expdshale.html

https://www.utelite.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Expanded-Aggregates-Solve-Soil-Problems.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXCU2AxlZ04

PegMc

KitCMC Thanks much. I'll be looking into it!

KitCMC

PegMc the product I’ve used is from a NC company.

Teddahlia

"It may be purchased in the Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, and Navasota areas. " Nice product. I would like to try it. Ship me 100 pounds to get started. 😀
He says one application lasts over 10 years.

KitCMC

It is difficult to find, but maybe not for southern growers. There is a greenhouse store near me that stocks it and will give me a good price if I buy in quantity, but that is the only place nearby I can find it. It’s from https://staliteenvironmental.com/
and sold as Permatill or Volebloc depending on who they’re marketing it to. It’s also used in road construction as a lightweight aggregate, but I’ve had no luck finding it in bulk through those channels.

Krista

I popped down to Portland last minute to visit friends! We made a special trip to Concentrates so that I could ogle the huge bags of soil amendments! They’re packaged in much larger quantities than in my local compost & fertilizer shop in Seattle. I got shamed at the counter when I rolled up with 6 bales of Tueful for use as compost in my beds and bags this year. I was sent back to return the bales to the floor and encouraged to go with their Ocean Rich Fish Compost instead, which I happily agreed to. I really enjoyed the visit, learned tons, and everything was priced at a fraction of the cost of what I can get at my local organic soil amendments shop. I have been purchasing 1.5 oz containers of water soluble kelp for $14 a pop! Found a 4# jug at Concentrates for $65! 🤯!

Teddahlia

I suppose after a summer storm one could gather lots of seaweed from the beach. As I recall it smells a bit nasty and some sort of flies are buzzing around. Perhaps all we need are the seaweed packets they sell as health food in the stores. I bet you could make your own seaweed tea out of it. My son works for a food distributor company and gives us some interesting food items. He actually went to a seaweed sampler party a week or two ago. He gave us some ramen packs that has one dried seaweed leaf in with the seasoning packet. Since there was just one 2 inch by one inch leaf, I ate it. I apparently survived and am writing this but I have not grown any taller since then. ☹

Krista

Teddahlia Maybe we give it a week and check in again! 🤩

calico20hill

If kelp worked that way for Humans my Asian kids would be quite a bit taller then they are. I think you are out of luck that way Ted.....