Seed collecting advice - what to make of these

Juliarugula

Any thoughts you guys can share with a seed newbie regarding these seeds? This variety (A sized cactus) makes these huge pods filled with seeds like this. Half dark, half light, not long, not short. I’m assuming these are all unpollinated seeds that are just unusually dark, as everything in the pod looks like this (none of the light colored stubby unpollinated seeds I’m used to).

But I just want to make sure these aren’t full of pollinated seeds that I just haven’t given enough time to fully develop.

Thanks!

Teddahlia

Some varieties make seed stubs instead of seeds. The stubs do not sprout but the longer seeds in the same pod sprout well. Not real common,

Juliarugula

Teddahlia The stubs do not sprout but the longer seeds in the same pod sprout well

Interesting. Sounds like a pain to sort through. Maybe I’ll try a little harder to pick out longer seeds in the other pods on the plant. There’s just not a clear delineation like I’m used to.

Emilyp

Teddahlia Islander made a whole bunch of black stubs for me a few years ago. I tried to germinate them- but you are right, nothing grew.

Bessie

Juliarugula you might try dissecting a few seeds to see what's inside. If you compare various seeds and stages of ripeness, you'll begin to identify characteristics of the outside of the seed along with it's thickness/firmness, when a seed has enough maturation to contain the cotyledon leaves and rudimentary root radicle that are both needed for germination.

Teddahlia

Dahlias produce 'fake" seeds all the time, especially on many of the ones that do not produce a lot of seeds and you really want seeds from them. Stubs are not all that common compared to full sized seeds that do not have what Bessie calls "...cotyledon and rudimentary root radicle..." Dahlias are in the group of plants where the embryo sprouts inside the seed and then goes into a storage mode and within the seed are specialized structures that formed but remain dormant for year(s). Anyway, there are lots and lots of seeds that will never sprout. I see people going through great lengths to sort the ones that will sprout from those that will not and then brag about the their high germination rates. When I get a very few seeds from a very important pod , I spend almost no time sorting into the ones that will sprout for sure as by doing that some that would sprout are eliminated. I want every seedling possible from these special pods and planting some seeds that do not sprout is just fine when that means you got every one that would sprout. Remember many famous dahlia varieties came from pods where only one seed sprouted.
Hollyhill Lavender Bewitched that we no longer have but always liked.

bloomhjelm

I recall Kristine Albrecht saying KA's Cloud was one of a small number of seeds from the pod ... 1 or 2 or 3.

I am very impatient and having trouble waiting for the right degree of doneness on the pods before taking them inside. A hybridizer on social media hung the pod stems upside down in her red-light grow room, but I don't know why she did that.

Teddahlia

Dividing overly dry seeds from the chaff is a pain in the you know what. The people who hang them up to dry, are generally breeders who do not keep track of seed parents. Their theory is that a good flower is a random event and you just need lots of seeds to make sure the random event happens in your seedling patch. Margaret would shoot me if I placed all her hand crossed seeds into one envelope and mixed them up. My memorial would say something like:
" Here lies the villain who dared to mix up the dahlia seeds. I had him cremated and placed his ashes in the pet cemetery."

calico20hill

Aw, I think his ashes should be used as a soil amendment....

bloomhjelm

There are services now that will help you be buried in a nice compostable garment/medium, sometimes with mycelium spores and seeds. Oregon and Washington are two of the six states where this is a legal funeral service.

calico20hill

When our son died of cancer this was his choice. We still have a pile of compost to mulch the hydrangeas. Its an odd feeling! But it will be my choice too when the time comes. I want to"continue" as a flower garden :-)

bloomhjelm

calico20hill Thanks for sharing that, I agree this is a beautiful choice.

calico20hill

With the faciity he chose,there is also an option to have your composted remains used to rehab logged off forests as wild flower meadows and future rebirth of a forest. That covers all of my bases!

Teddahlia

Back to seed collecting . I posted this picture on Facebook , a double pod on one of our seed making private flowers.
I have not yet harvested it but did harvest a couple of similar but slightly smaller double pods from the plant. I counted well over 100 seeds harvested from the two pods. As a breeder you need seeds and this "A" sized flower was originally selected because it had a very nice flower. It also makes nice tubers. Unfortunately, too much of a good thing is a bad thing applies to this one. Yes, it makes some nice seedlings but how many of them do you need?

Bessie

Teddahlia the first thing that pops into my mind, when considering too much seed is to germinate as many as possible, then select for the strongest growers early in the growing cycle. Yes, you might be culling some nice ones, but in the long run, you will be breeding for robust growers. It seems to me that has been what Hollyhill is known for, robust great growth.

magucci

Teddahlia I think I would fall over and hit my head if I came across a pod like this. 😀

bloomhjelm

I harvested a Sandia Isa pod with 20 fat seeds and it made my day. I know why you all do this for a lifetime I think. 🙂

Teddahlia

Sandia Isa is a half sister of some Hollyhill Dahlias. We grew Isa for only one year as we had most of it's traits from it's parent and Isa did not make tubers for us. Margaret and Sandy Boley shared some genetics with each other. We have a line that includes lots of Boley genes and a line that is our old genes made better by successive generations and a third line that is based on Pam Howden. As you may expect, these lines are being blended together as the goal is to get the best traits. Accidentally, we have the start of a new line that picked up color and plant height and Margaret has already hand crossed that flower with some good prospects. And she is now using a 2011 waterlily seedling that was never released to come up with super vigor and especially intense color. We are already looking forward to next years seedlings as we harvest the seeds this year.
Hollyhill Letitia picture taken a day or two ago. It has an unusual trait of having several flowers of the same ripeness on the plant at the same time. It has a negative trait of not being a good seed maker. It is from the Pam Howden line.

Juliarugula

Teddahlia It has a negative trait of not being a good seed maker.

I’ve noticed that.

HH Honeygold, though. Holy Moses! I got 34 seeds from the first pod I’ve harvested.

Teddahlia

Honeygold is average seed maker here and 34 is way above average. I have been spending time each day shucking seeds and have some nice ones all packed away. Many more to harvest as I have marked many pods with flagging tape to remind me to pick them when they are riper. I generally only mark pods that have seeds. Giant dahlia seeds take forever to ripen. Small flowers have small seed pods(usually) and the small seeds ripen much quicker.
Hollyhill Pink Tigress and we need the other color version that is actually pink.

Juliarugula

Teddahlia Honeygold is average seed maker here and 34 is way above average

39 seeds from HH Honeygold pod #2. She must like it here in my garden.