Small dahlias

MissyWeitzel

I'm fresh off our West Michigan DS show and something is troubling me. I'm embarrassed by the size of my dahlias and have questions. I know that tightly spacing my dahlia plants results in smaller dahlias and I know that bloom size is also affected by disbudding/pinching/stopping the plants. I also know that really great exhibitors do all kinds of fussing over their plants and with the amount of plants I have that just isn't happening over here. So I realize this is a complicated question with all kinds of contributing factors.
For example, my Sandia Bertha blooms were pretty and definitely not as large as the first flush, but my goodness this dude showed up with Sandia Bertha blooms that were more than twice the size of mine! Not only were the blooms bigger but the foliage was way bigger too.
I'm not using synthetic bloom booster fertilizer or anything, but I have been very good at foliar feeding or soil drenching weekly with fish and/or seaweed emulsion. I have yearly soil tests and amend accordingly. I did not add any compost this year but I added several inches of mulched leaves on top before winter.

A really excellent exhibitor in our club with many years of experience thinks my whole problem with small blooms is due to fertilizer or lack thereof. With the midwest show in 2 weeks, is there anything I can do now to help my dahlias grow larger? I have big bloom envy and a new Sportscar isn't in the budget. 😅

Bessie

Teddahlia , MissyWeitzel
I've had great results using a tried and true organic nitrogen source, human urine. Yep, last year (or the year before) I was hauling buckets that had been diluted down with water into the garden and using it as fertilizer. The dahlias grew nice and green and big, and I had to cut back on using too much of this liquid gold fertilizer. This year I have less energy, way more dahlias, and was not willing to put up with the hassle.

Teddahlia

Foliar feeding is not very effective. Sounds to me like a lack of nitrogen and it takes big green leaves to make nice flowers. Too late for fertilizer now. If you want to be organic buy some chicken feather meal for the nitrogen. In the ADS midwest trial garden in Bristol, Indiana they for many years have only applied nitrogen to the trial garden as soil test said all other nutrients were fine. He used urea for the nitrogen.

MissyWeitzel

Teddahlia thank you very much, Ted.

Juliarugula

Teddahlia Disbranching , limiting the flower to two stalks works well to get larger flowers.

MissyWeitzel mentioned Sandia Bertha specifically. I’ve noticed that the Boleys’ recent waterlilies are definite superbloomers. I’ve assumed that blooms are smaller on mine because, while I disbud, I don’t disbranch, and so my Sandia Bertha, Sandia Bliss, etc can be carrying as many as 8-10 blooms in one flush. That’s a lot of blooms to grow up to size. (I’m sure fertilization and everything else mentioned play into this, but I’ve noticed bloom size issues with Sandia varieties specifically myself and have always attributed it to this)

SteveM

I agree, it sounds like nitrogen and possibly the other grower is sacrificing quantity for size by disbudding down several nodes. However, I'm not sure the form is necessarily better with larger blooms, I don't think the two are related. Bigger is not always better.🙂

Teddahlia

Show disbudding: Normal disbudding is down one node. For B sized and larger many people go down two nodes. Fanatics go down three nodes but do it in a specific order with some time between them. I believe that they do the first one then skip the second one for awhile and do the third. Please correct me if I got that wrong.

SteveM

Teddahlia Show growers seemed to always have a "secret" method of doing everything, including disbudding. I remember one method called "chasing the bud" which involved (if I remember correctly) disbudding the lower nodes first and gradually (over weeks) work upwards towards the main bud. I tried a few secret methods but I must not have had the magic touch because I never noticed any difference.

Teddahlia

Disbranching , limiting the flower to two stalks works well to get larger flowers. Show growers only share some of their techniques and as with many successful ventures, they really do not know which of their procedures really work but do them all. Healthy stock is one they seldom talk about and really successful show people grow several plants of their show varieties and have three categories of stock. The worst ones are destroyed. The average ones are given away to people who stand in line to get stock from a famous exhibitor. The best stock is not shared and is the "secret weapon" of many show growers.

SteveM

Bessie sing a tried and true organic nitrogen source, human urine

I suppose that method would cut down on garden tours.🙂

Several years ago I got a great deal on 6 tons of Milorganite. I applied the "black gold" so often that I poisoned the soil with excess Phosphorus and nothing except for the hardiest of weeds would grow there.

blown_dry

Bessie I've done this too. Unlike solid waste, urine is not a hazard, it's free, saves water, and the plants love it (when watered down adequately).

Teddahlia

One source said urine had to be diluted to ten to one. A now deceased dahlia club member worked at the sewage processing plant. There were various levels of treatment from raw sewage(very bad) all the way to safe to release to a stream or river(he said safe to drink). He used something from the sewage disposal plant that was safe and a good fertilizer. He is dead now and most of us do not work at the sewage disposal plant. Milorganite is still being sold in Milwaukee and it is treated sewage sludge. It is high in phosphates however. I have not tried any of the above. One premier exhibitor used pig manure and shared his methods in a class at the Federation. He diluted it in large barrel and applied it in liquid form and I cannot remember if it was drip or sprinklers. When a successful exhibitor shares his "trade secrets" , there are usually lots of people who try his method. As you may surmise, I never heard of anyone trying the pig manure.
Parshall selected seedling is doing well.

Teddahlia

Phosphorus should be de-listed as being a fertilizer. Actually, if you harvest a crop like corn or wheat or potatoes, the crops you harvest have lots of phosphorus in them and the soil does not accumulate the phosphorus. Dahlia growers harvest only flowers and a small amount of tubers and we tend to add too much phosphorus that becomes "toxic" in high amounts. Most manures are high in phosphorus.

calico20hill

Wow, that "Parshall selected" variety! How big is it? I love the deep coral color and the form!

Teddahlia

"Wow, that "Parshall selected" variety! How big is it? I love the deep coral color and the form!" B sized about 7 inches in diameter and the color is much better than last year. It may have been selected by Dick Parshall but it is all our breeding and is a seedling of HH Gladiator.

magucci

Some of these responses were unexpected 😆.

drewtheflorist

magucci No Sh*T !

Teddahlia

Is that why old timers had the out house near the garden?