Hybridizing Dahlias

Bessie · 2023-09-14T03:43:02+00:00

Krista to discover if seeds are growing in the seed pod, after there are no remaining anthers on the pod, gently squeeze the pods between your thumb and fing...

AndreaB

Teddahlia "There is more than one way to skin a cat."

I don’t think Jasper or Byron would approve!

blown_dry

AndreaB They respectfully suggest: 'There's more than one way to peel a grape' 😄

Teddahlia

I use to include garden flowers in my definitions of dahlias. It went over like a lead balloon. For example, almost all of the bedding types of dahlias are patented varieties from the Netherlands (Dr. Hammett is the exception but his are patented too). I have noticed that Dahlia people who go to shows and join clubs, shun bedding dahlias.
Garden dahlias are also not in demand. I used to write a nice definition where a garden variety had to have nice foliage and flowers held above the foliage. No one cares much.
Arrangers flowers are my favorite category that hardly anyone recognizes. There is no easy definition but Margaret seems to know what they look like.

JessieC

Teddahlia
What is the name of this beauty in the photo?? It reminds me of HH Pink Martini, which is one I’ve been searching for.

Juliarugula

Teddahlia I love the fairy lights with the arrangements! I may have to try that sometime this summer. Although it doesn’t get dark until 10 pm or so in the summer, so I bet that I’ll forget. 🤪

Teddahlia

HH Pink Martini is a wonderful arrangers flower. Waterlies make excellent cut flowers and they last as long as most dahlias. Remember they have fewer rows of florets and that means the stem can hydrate easier than a flower with more florets.

Teddahlia

On Facebook the Breeding Dahlias group has over 4,000 members and about 5 to 10 new members are joining every day. I am probably going to cut back on my detailed responses to "novice" questions. I will always be more responsive here. Kristine Albrecht wrote a good book on breeding dahlias and recently I responded to one of the long winded "I want to know everything" questions with "read the book first and then pose one question at time". I would enjoy commenting on some subjects where I differ with Kristine or when she just does not cover the topic at all or not in enough detail. For example, her writing about breeding for color is not written from a scientific perspective.

Old picture.

Emilyp

I really appreciate this smaller group format. I feel like there is more opportunity for coherent discussion. 4000 people is a lot, that is quadruple the population of my hometown growing up!

Emilyp

Has anyone grown a white dahlia with red picotee? Something like Hart's Bonnie, but in white.

Teddahlia

I started to answer the red picotee question and am up to 4 paragraphs or so. It looks like an article may be in the wind.

Teddahlia

Margaret took this picture of her 2023 seedlings . Not edited at all.

bloomhjelm

Speaking of picotee, I was thinking of how dahlias are like show cats and dogs, where we have a common language for markings. I have two brown tabby cats and one is "mackerel" and one is "classic" marked. As a novice I would like to know what common terms breeders use for some other desirable patterning traits besides picotee.

KitCMC

bloomhjelm love this! Horse markings are also described in specific ways which indicate height, width, patterning, placement in the body, etc.

Cosey

bloomhjelm

Ooooh.... I like this. Not saying I'm correct either but this is how I describe the traits.
Patches- I call it bicolor but in my notes will continue to describe it as 80% dark purple throat with fading white centralized tips. I usually give the color ratio in percentages and then note how the color change looks (sharp or fading).

Tips- also tips

Striation- I note the side of the petal and also use striation. Striated reverse.

Concentration - I see why you would use this term. I've floated a few around in my head but haven't landed on the perfect term. I currently use the phrase "filtered pigment layer" as is reminds me of graphic design terms when an artist can layer color on an image at different transparencies.

Iridescence - Diamond dust, because Ted pointed out the Iris community used that term to describe the petal surface that redirects light in a sparkling manner. When another established plant group has a term that can be applied to dahlias, I tend to defer to their definition as an effort to maintain cohesiveness among the horticulture industry.

KitCMC

Cosey Do you think a standard description of the more common patterns/markings would be helpful to cut flower farmers and folks who are growing with specific palettes or aesthetic outcomes as goals?

Teddahlia

Color patterns can have a thousand names just like people like to name colors interesting names. The house paint stores have different names for the same basic color. I have a problem with color names as they mean different things to different people. My peach color may well not be your peach color.

bloomhjelm

I'm glad I'm not in the wedding flower industry where a bride says she wants "blush" and you don't know if she means cream, peach, pale pink, cafe latte, or any color in between.

calico20hill

bloomhjelm Right. I got caught in that trap several times. My best response was to collect a handful of blooms in every possible "blush" color and ask them which one was the one they thought of...? Usually they had no better idea then I did...that was the Bride's Magazine had told them they wanted. And if they had naturally darker skin or were extemely pale it wasn't even their own blush that mattered!

Teddahlia

Color is why people love dahlias. I just wish they knew how to describe the colors they like.

Cosey

KitCMC Do you think a standard description of the more common patterns/markings would be helpful to cut flower farmers and folks who are growing with specific palettes or aesthetic outcomes as goals?

100% agree. This would be a good topic to discuss in a workshop. There is no organization that gathers and builds relationships between dahlia hybridizers in general. ADS facilitates society meetings and naturally those who hybridize regionally meet and develop personal relationships, but that is absent for those who aren't members or choose to focus on a program outside of the ADS market. The ADS judging manual is the first place I look when trying to find a term to describe traits and characteristics. If I don't find what I am looking for I search other floriculture society websites (orchid, roses, hostas, and chrysanthemum groups are active.) I also bought a Plant Terminology resource that gives the accurate name and description of plant features. A botanist would use this to classify a plant. However, there are still gaps and I find myself making up terms to describe tuber shapes or color compositions.

There will be benefits to using the same vocabulary. I'll have to think on this.

Teddahlia

I get the impression that most people do not describe flowers using words(at least not accurate words) and if you had a nice photo album showing the colors with examples of real flowers they may catch on quicker. The ADS color charts are a joke to me as most of the chips do not have corresponding flowers.
Seedling that cups a bit too much. I think we need to post more pictures of flawed seedlings. Actually, I sort of like this one.

SteveM

Teddahlia Seedling that cups a bit too much

Maybe too much for show but would make a stunning cut variety. It borders on a new form (especially if it stays cupped in daylight) and I can imagine the potential with various contrasting color combinations. Maybe ADS needs to expand the WLs to have separate classes for IC WL and WL over 6".

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