Hybridizing Dahlias

Bessie · 2023-09-14T03:43:02+00:00

Krista to discover if seeds are growing in the seed pod, after there are no remaining anthers on the pod, gently squeeze the pods between your thumb and fing...

Teddahlia

calico20hill
I love to make fun of "so called "stellar dahlias that do not meet the stellar standard. The stellar definition clearly says: "...they exhibit space between the ray florets in each of the rows....". It seems to me the less space they have, the more ribbons they get. They are working on the definition(again as it has been revised several times.

Teddahlia

And what is a breeder to do if the goal is to breed stellars? I marked a potential "stellar" to keep in the 2025 seedlings. It may not be a stellar but I like the color and shape and the size of the 3.75" inch bloom. Sorry, BW picture until next year.

SteveM

Teddahlia I see a royal purple and Seabeck's Hilda is the seed parent. 🙂

Teddahlia

It is seedling of a purple waterlily flower and it seems to me that waterlilies can contribute to the fewer rows of petals and since WL petals are wide, when the gene that rolls the petals are present there is enough width of the petal to make a stellar trough. If the petals rolled even more it would be a double orchid. So this is an almost stellar, almost double orchid flower that would look like a semi cactus to a beginner grower. It does have a very saturated solid color and since it is a miniature flower, it would really look good in a bouquet. I am going on and one about a flower that has not yet been grown a second year and may fall apart the second year. Generally, too many good things are said about first year seedlings and the truth is revealed the second year. Is the truth good or bad? We will see.

KitCMC

Looking for some advice. I have saved seed for the first time ever. I live in the suburbs and space is at a premium. There is a 15 x 3 foot strip I can use, but it is up against the house on the West side of our home. It is shaded until early afternoon, then gets 5.5 - 6 hours of blazing afternoon sun. My question is, how much do you think I will I diminish my chances of seeing blooms to evaluate? Do you all put your seedlings in full sun for this reason? I don't want to end up having a bunch of plants to dig up that I haven't seen a single bloom on, but my options are limited.

SteveM

KitCMC My question is, how much do you think I will I diminish my chances of seeing blooms to evaluate?

Unless you are breeding the large varieties, there should be no disadvantage to planting on the West side of your house. It might actually be an advantage if you get an extra-hot summer. The partial shade should be more dahlia-friendly than growmg in full sun. You might have to watch for increased cases of mildew when you plant in partial shade.
If you are planting only seedlings in that 3 X 15 ft.space then (using my seedling spacing) you should be able to grow about 100 seedlings with no problem.

Emilyp

KitCMC I have planted seedlings, just as you described- they were planted facing west, in the shade of our house and received the hot afternoon sun. They did fine, and they all bloomed.

Teddahlia

Since you are going to cull 90%(we do that more or less) of the seedlings when they bloom, plant them in between your named varieties every other one and do not change your spacing. Yes, that is crowded and when the loser blooms, remove the plant and your named varieties will hardly notice the crowding. If you select some to keep, you may crowd out your named variety a bit but it may be worth it. Your area against the house may work well too as seedlings are very vigorous.

KitCMC

Teddahlia

SteveM

Thank you, this info is really helpful. Depending on how many seeds germinate, I will probably use interplanting as well as testing how the west facing "bed" goes. Hedge my bets and learn what works. I'm excited!

Teddahlia

Our first year seedling patch is a tall jungle. Some plants are 8 feet tall.

bloomhjelm

How did the Hollyhill height gene start? Did you know you were selecting for it at first? Doesn't it make them hard to support?

I ask these questions but I truly loved my 7' sunflower-stalked RM Glenny Penny.

Teddahlia

The tall gene we have puts more fiber into the entire plant including the tubers. They do not need as much staking as you may think. Where did it come from? We line bred for semi cactus form and the gene was added when we went for semi cactus. In other words, "who knows?" but we noticed the plants were more vigorous and resistant to disease too. HH Tangelo is a bit too tall as is Zarina. Our unreleased purple waterlily has some of the trait but also has a central stalk that is the size of a giant dahlia. It only grows to about 7 feet. HH Finlandia is an A sized flower and has the height gene too. It was 10feet tall in a trial garden.

SteveM

For my purposes the height gene(s) is not as important as the gene(s) that contribute to the plant "habit". Hollyhill Berry Purple grew very tall (7') for me but was very easy to stake because the growth habit was "upwards" and not "outwards". On the other hand, varieties like Pam Howden do not grow extremely tall but want to grow sideways so require a lot of time staking (to get straight stems).

Teddahlia

One seldom discussed advantage of our taller varieties are the stems of the flowers. They are longer. They are longer and stiffer. In other words. when a florist wants an 18 inch stem that is very possible. Not a long wimpy stem either. That is why I say the trait adds fiber to the entire plant: stalks, stems, tubers too.

Juliarugula

Teddahlia that’s a really cool picture!

Funny, HH Zarina has never grown super tall in my garden. I wonder if there’s a difference due to environment. My stock came from you originally and I’ve been growing it for maybe 4? years now? It’s reliably a very healthy vigorous five foot plant here in Indiana.

My tallest is always HH Dungeness, but Finlandia and Carefree try their best to outdo it.

Teddahlia

Zarina grows taller than Dungeness here. New one Calypso is probably the tallest waterlily of all waterlilies out there.

Teddahlia

Need to discuss with Margaret what flowers should be increased by taking cuttings.
Step one: tell her the seedling number. Silence
Step two : describe it verbally. Silence .
Step 3: search for 20 minutes and find a picture. Silence
Step 4: tell her she liked it . Sometimes this works well. Sometimes it is true.
Only 3 tubers of this one.

Teddahlia

Lost angels are the ones that you wanted to keep but life got in the way. 2006 lost angel.

Teddahlia

I did a zoom a presentation on dahlia breeding for the New England DS. Over 2 hours. Mostly their questions.

SteveM

Teddahlia Your presentation would have been worth the price of membership. I don't suppose they recorded it for public consumption?

SteveM

A while back, the Facebook Dahlia Propagation Group posted an interesting research paper on breeding to increase the vase life of dahlias. I thought it was amazing that they increased the vase life of the cultivars from 5 days to 8 days in only 5 generations. This tells me that there has not been a whole lot of breeding in this area previously (to a large extent) and should be a trait easily added to the forms we are breeding now.
Breeding for increased vase life can be a double-edged sword. One of the main reasons that dahlias can be grown locally as cut flowers is because the vase life is too short to ship them from the South American growers. Still, it would be nice to increase the vase life by a couple of days for some of the types. The ability to keep all 8 ray florets intact for 5 days after opening would be a boon for the use of open centered types as cut flowers commercially.

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