ADS Classification: Form

Krista

I’ve been looking at forms and recently searched the ADS OCG for MC FD and only three cultivars populated; Colorado Micro, Irish Gnome, Robert Walker. I’m hoping to grow Irish Gnome this year, but wasn’t able to find much about the other two. How would one show a bloom in this category when there are only three varieties in existence? What happens if there aren’t any other entries to compete against?

Photo from ADS OCG of Robert Walker:

MissyWeitzel

Krista if you show in that category and it is the single entry and the judges deem your bloom(s) fit to move forward you will automatically get 1st place and then your bloom will compete against the 1st place blooms in other micro entries and should it get 1st place there, you'll get it on the head table for best micro dahlia overall. At our local West Michigan Dahlia Show there usually aren't very many micro entries. I think we had 4 or 5 total last season. I have a couple of the Kelsey micro collarettes I'm growing this season just to try to enter at our show.

Other types of dahlias that aren't entered a whole lot at our local and regional shows are orchettes, orchid, peony flowering and anemones. That Could be very different in your area. It's not a bad idea to pay attention to what people are showing and not showing in your area should you want to set yourself up for an easier chance at getting on the head table. I have placed with quite a few orchettes and anemones.

Krista

MissyWeitzel Oh wow, very cool! It makes me wonder if micro forms are harder to breed for. I see that there are a number of micro categories listed in the ADS Classification and Handbook but could a micro sized bloom of any form be entered and compete?

MissyWeitzel

Krista yes, all micro forms can be entered. There just aren't a ton of varieties but some hybridizers have been working on that so I'm sure we'll see many more introductions in the near future.

Teddahlia

" It makes me wonder if micro forms are harder to breed for." You said it. Dahlias want to be BB sized. It gets harder and harder ro breed them as they get bigger. By the time you get to giant dahlias you have to be a dahlia breeding wizard to get a good one(or any at all). The same goes for small and as you get smaller it gets harder and harder to breed them. Micros are small like like poms and sometimes even smaller. Bill McLaren was breeding micros when he died. Steve Boley has been doing some nice ones. The 2 inch size for them should have started out at 2.5 inches with drop to 2 inches after a few years. Our HH Lilliput is slightly too big to be a micro. What do I cross it with to get a smaller one? It does make very nice seedlings but always bigger. It takes many years to populate a new size/form and micros have only been around for a few years.

SteveM

Teddahlia Bill McLaren was breeding micros

You sent him a nice small variety to add to his breeding program, I think it was a FD? He used the prefix "U2" (Under 2) for his micro introductions. His best micro intro was probably U2 Ania.

Teddahlia

I am pretty sure I sent him Lilliput that was just a seedling then.

MIDahlias

My rabbit hole for today. I wanted to look to see if I could find any of the national show results from last year. Instead, I started looking at the massive list of 312 Hapet cultivars listed on the National Directory.

I'm having trouble understanding the abbreviations. I don't see an abbreviation table, but when looking at the definition of forms I noticed the National Dahlia Society forms vary from the American Dahlia Society Forms.

https://www.dahlia-nds.co.uk/about-dahlias/classification/

They don't have Informal Decorative or Orchettes listed.
Orchids are "Star"
Laciniated are "Fimbriated"
Semi and Incurved Cactus are "Semi Cactus"

Does anyone know or want to guess what the abbreviations mean?

Bessie

MIDahlias this form has the ADS Dahlia Classification and Number Guide https://dahlia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/4digit_conversion.pdf ( general security warning, only click on PDF links if you know and trust the source!!)

I think the Australian system might be ( my guess)
SIZE:
G = Grand(e)
L = Large
M = Medium
S = Small
Min = Miniature

SHAPE:
D = Decorative
Fim = Fimbriated
WL = Waterlily
pom = pom
SC = semi cactus
ST = Stellar

MIDahlias

Bessie
Thanks, I understand now. The size is part of the form abbreviation.
GD=Grande Decorative

bloomhjelm

MIDahlias In France it's a "dahlia royale with cheese."

MIDahlias

Question: If a dahlia is classified as a solid color dahlia, wouldn't a dahlia get knocked down at a show for having white on the reverse side of the petals.

This is copied exactly as it appears on the Cowlitz River Dahlias website:
Allen's Bella - new for 2025
DESCRIPTION:
2025 introduction from Allen Manuel. Average of three ADS trial garden scores: 87.62. Average of three ADS show bench scores: 85.92. Allen’s Bella earned the Derrill W. Hart medal as the highest scoring ADS trial garden entry in the large and giant class for 2024 and the Lynn B. Dudley medal for the highest ADS bench scores for the large and giant varieties! Outstanding depth and plant habit. The bright purple color with white reverse makes this a crowd pleaser in the garden.
DETAILS:
A SC PR
3.5’

Teddahlia

Question: If a dahlia is classified as a solid color dahlia, wouldn't a dahlia get knocked down at a show for having white on the reverse side of the petals.
If a color on the reverse is easily seen from the front of the bloom, I believe it is supposed to be included in the determination of whether it is "blend" (light blend or dark blend). It is not a color fault to have the color on the reverse be visible. Having said that, the reverse color is judged the same and blotchiness or uneven color are faults.
Allen's Bella is beyond belief in real life and Allen summoned me over to the head table at the show and said "What do you think of this one?" Breeders seldom do this and he was very proud of this one for good reason. The colors are spectacular and the form above average for a large flower. It is a unicorn in it's first year and I was asked to pull strings to get Allen to sell/trade a tuber for a European dahlia addict. I told Allen about the request and the two parties will communicate. Allen has worked very hard breeding large and giant dahlias and he is in partnership with his brother who has a professional horticulture background.

MIDahlias

Teddahlia I love the AA and the A's.... I hope I can grow it to specifications. The description, "depth" made it worth the purchase.

I was asking because IF I have a beautiful bloom at show time should I show it, if it's showing white.

I'll ask again when I have a stunning bloom.

To date, I think my best giant/large bloom dahlias I've grown with a globe appearance due to depth have been AC Jeremy and Felida Splendor. Everyone loves walking through or by our gardens, but I want huge - show quality - globe - blooms.

bloomhjelm

Teddahlia I feel very justified in my Cowlitz purchase today then.

I have been looking for some uncommon Wyn's and it is frustrating to find some only in Europe and Canada. I found a photo of a very stoic Turkish man with Wyn's Conquistador. Wyn's Dusty Daydream is only found on social media in Sweden. A Lithuanian farm has Honey Spice. I know, or have heard, the Wynnes lost many and Cory Wynne grew fewer than ever this year. So that encourages me to find more and share them.

AKWindWatcher

bloomhjelm - Wyn's Conquistador is here in the US. I bought mine from Dahlia Prairie last year and I've seen it on a couple of lists this year. Keep an eye out for it at society sales or small grower lists for in person events etc. I have no doubt it's in a number of yards. Roving Radish had it too but it was one that went kaput in her horrible flood.

Dusty Daydream is a HORRIBLE tuber producer and storer. Warwick in BC has it but because it is so horrible they have made the decision to stop selling it in order to keep what stock they have. Melissa at Dandelion Lane has it and offered up a tuber for a charity auction on Giving Tuesday. It went for $350. She might have cuttings at her in person sale coming up.

Honey Spice is a challenging one. I lost mine this past summer in all of the wet. Gary @ Pleasant Valley Glads had it but I believe it's one that was also lost there. I'll try to remember to give you a tickle if I see it. I'm hoping to find a replacement myself at some point. Like Conquistador, I'm sure it's hiding in plain sight. You never know where you might find things. I found Alpen Rhicky hiding in a yard up here in Alaska of all places.

bloomhjelm

AKWindWatcher I wish I was retired and could do American Pickers: dahlias edition.

I will sneak out the back now since I'm off topic about giant forms.